From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Les Harris Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs for new users Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:35:31 -0800 Organization: People's Front Against Organizations Message-ID: <4p4rt6-2ne.ln1@lesharris.com> References: <912155b0911230837i48326730m82e0d54d4004be59@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259005898 30284 80.91.229.12 (23 Nov 2009 19:51:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:51:38 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 23 20:51:32 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NCewV-0003k9-T6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:51:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48756 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCewV-0005L7-9l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:51:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCevQ-00051g-Fb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:50:16 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCevL-0004zi-6F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:50:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40589 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCevL-0004zd-1k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:50:11 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:32920) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NCevK-0007iZ-9U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:50:10 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NCevF-00034r-Px for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:50:05 +0100 Original-Received: from 65.102.157.114 ([65.102.157.114]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:50:05 +0100 Original-Received: from lharris by 65.102.157.114 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:50:05 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 26 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.102.157.114 X-Face: %4KI#W/E.D'"lc~N*Pq8SxA_Y{M+7y4]&d3R$:xoXY`b%$4aZa-0; <6!][&7qTL^/\{h List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117613 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: > It is quite strange to not include Emacs. On the other hand it points > to how important it is too make it easy to start using Emacs. I think > we should have to move to adhere better to existing GUI standards (CUA > for example, but that is a hot potato). First let's get the tautologies out of the way: Emacs is a complex system with many features and extreme extensibility. With that axiom in mind I would argue that any attempt to add a veneer of simplicity over the top is doing a disservice to would-be emacs users. With that said, I think a solution to the learning-emacs-in-classroom and emacs-for-new-users problems is the same: include a .emacs which turns on things like CUA mode to make operation more familiar. The instructor of an emacs class is in an ideal position to do this. For others this is something that could be easily distributed with emacs perhaps with adding a blurb about it on the emacs splash screen. -- Do they only stand By ignorance, is that their happy state, The proof of their obedience and their faith?