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From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:44:10 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4nn0abi07p.fsf@lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 33AB7A8C-24D6-11D8-9D12-000A95D9C74C@fugue.com

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, mellon@fugue.com wrote:

On Dec 1, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>> I think migrating Emacs towards a threading model is possible:
> 
> Maybe this is a stupid question, but what's the payoff you're
> expecting when you're done with this project?  What is it about
> Emacs that makes it worth a major rewrite in order to make it
> multithreaded?  I realize that multithreading will introduce small
> conveniences in some cases, but in general writing multithreaded
> code is a total pain in the neck, so my guess is that the cost of
> those small conveniences would be more than they'd be worth, and you
> might be able to get them cheaper using some other technique, if you
> could identify what they are.

Per already mentioned Gnus.  Generally any place in Emacs where you
could be doing task A while task B is waiting for a blocking resource.
Also, an event-driven model for user interaction would be easier to
implement in a way that's functional for the user.

In a way, this is a very valid question - what can't be done with
processes that threads can do?  You can do almost everything without
threads, but the cost is very high in terms of portability, resource
usage, and ease of use.  Furthermore, as I mentioned, processes are
much harder to couple (for data sharing) than threads.

Ideally, you won't have to worry about multithreading if you don't
want to.  Java allows programmers to mark functions as synchronous,
so only one of it can be running at once.  I proposed doing this by
default for all Emacs functions, and then making them thread-safe
step by step.

Ted

  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-12-02 17:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 133+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-11-16 21:46 Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Frank Schmitt
2003-11-17  0:49 ` Alex Schroeder
2003-11-17  4:06   ` Dhruva Krishnamurthy
2003-11-17  4:29     ` Miles Bader
2003-11-30 16:36       ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-11-30 18:01         ` Vinicius Jose Latorre
2003-11-30 18:39           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-11-30 18:12         ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2003-11-30 19:40         ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-01 16:04         ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-02 14:45           ` Ted Lemon
2003-12-02 15:48             ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:18               ` David Kastrup
2003-12-03 12:38                 ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:27               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-02 18:53                 ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-03 13:03                   ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:44             ` Ted Zlatanov [this message]
2003-12-03 17:16           ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-03 17:58             ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-03 23:38               ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 13:05                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 14:07                   ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 14:58                     ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-04 15:44                       ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 16:17                     ` Kim F. Storm
2003-12-04 15:58                       ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-04 16:26                         ` non-blocking sockets (was Re: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Nic Ferrier
2003-12-05 11:35                           ` Kim F. Storm
2003-12-04 19:55                       ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 20:30                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-04 20:58                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 22:49                             ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-05 12:17                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 13:06                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-05 14:44                                 ` David Kastrup
2003-12-07 23:55                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08 16:54                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 17:09                                     ` David Kastrup
2003-12-08 18:10                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 22:02                                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-08 18:25                                     ` What's the problem? (Was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Luke Gorrie
2003-12-08 19:56                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 20:56                                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-08 22:09                                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-08 21:01                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08 19:57                                       ` What's the problem? Simon Josefsson
2003-12-09 23:45                                         ` Juri Linkov
2003-12-10  0:58                                           ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  4:35                                             ` Miles Bader
2003-12-10  5:38                                               ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  5:51                                                 ` Miles Bader
2003-12-10  6:34                                                   ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  7:19                                                     ` Miles Bader
2003-12-11 14:12                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-11 23:09                                                         ` Miles Bader
2003-12-12 23:55                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-13 16:11                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-13 17:29                                                             ` Jan D.
2003-12-13 17:35                                                             ` David Kastrup
2003-12-14  6:17                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-14 11:55                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2003-12-14 14:27                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-14 10:18                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-10  8:18                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-11 14:45                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-10 15:36                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-11  1:46                                                   ` Miles Bader
2003-12-12 23:54                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-11 18:39                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-11 18:48                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-12  3:27                                                   ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-12  3:57                                                     ` Miles Bader
2003-12-13 15:17                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-13  4:08                                                 ` Miles Bader
2003-12-13 23:14                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-14 13:12                                                   ` Emacs kill buffer Camm Maguire
2003-12-09 19:28                                       ` What's the problem? (Was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-09 22:02                                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-10  0:13                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-10  1:41                                             ` David Kastrup
2003-12-10  2:49                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-12  0:44                                                 ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-10  0:45                                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-10  2:55                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-09 19:32                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-09 22:13                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-10 15:16                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
     [not found]                                         ` <E1AUS6B-0006KH-Hq@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                           ` <4ny8tjryy8.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu>
     [not found]                                           ` <4nn09xm68c.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu>
2003-12-13 23:15                                             ` What's the problem? Richard Stallman
2003-12-14  3:21                                               ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05  8:58                             ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-05 11:58                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 12:12                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 20:37                                 ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-05 21:45                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08  0:10                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08  1:26                                     ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-04 17:22                   ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 18:01                     ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 18:31                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 19:26                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 22:05                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 20:18                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 23:00                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 12:06                         ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 13:16                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 21:30                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 14:46                           ` David Kastrup
2003-12-05 15:07                             ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 13:56                       ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2003-12-05 21:33                         ` non-blocking auto-save (was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-03 20:01             ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Nic Ferrier
2003-12-03 20:29               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-03 21:42                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-12-04  7:33                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-04 15:37                     ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-04 18:06                       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-04  7:33                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-04 13:14                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 15:41                   ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-06 20:58       ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07  0:15         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-07 14:52           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07 16:58             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-07  4:16         ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-07 14:53           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07 23:00             ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-11-17 19:31 ` Richard Stallman
2003-11-17 22:53   ` David Masterson
2003-11-18  5:57     ` Miles Bader
2003-11-20 19:19       ` David Masterson
2003-11-22 21:19         ` Richard Stallman
2003-11-18  6:52     ` John Wiegley

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