From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs setup assistants Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:29:20 -0400 Organization: =?koi8-r?q?=F4=C5=CF=C4=CF=D2=20=FA=CC=C1=D4=C1=CE=CF=D7?= @ Cienfuegos Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <4n8yfofnan.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1084993447 1747 80.91.224.253 (19 May 2004 19:04:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:04:07 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed May 19 21:03:58 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BQWMA-0003ge-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:03:58 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BQWM9-00067H-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 21:03:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BQVfG-0002MX-Qe for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:19:38 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BQVeZ-0002Lg-HL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:18:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BQVe2-0002Dr-SN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:18:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [80.91.224.249] (helo=main.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BQTu3-0006QZ-C7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:26:47 -0400 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BQTGR-0002Fs-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:45:51 +0200 Original-Received: from asimov.bwh.harvard.edu ([134.174.9.63]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:45:51 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by asimov.bwh.harvard.edu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:45:51 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 55 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: asimov.bwh.harvard.edu X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:MMcbZQZ2zQ2QyriFA5Wb14TChrY= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:23730 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:23730 On 19 May 2004, dak@gnu.org wrote: > is there something to be gained by having the whole Texinfo > machinery available? For the writer, Texinfo is well-supported by Emacs already, and it is easy to write and parse visually (unlike XML, which was also proposed). For the parser, the "special" assistant Texinfo data can be separated easily from the rest of the document with existing Texinfo conventions (@ifassistant ... @end ifassistant). If all the Texinfo commands were available, that would make writing assistants easier in itself. > Conversion into HTML (with Active-E controls? Implemented via > emcasclient or natively in emacs-w3m? Or just with copy&paste > recipes to feed into an inferior Lisp buffer), into printable > manuals, into fast accessible info pages? > > The info pages, of course, would be extended with controls for > configuring stuff. I think assistant conversion to HTML is a waste of time at this point, because a) Emacs has all the widgets it needs, and b) the assistants, as proposed by Lars, are ELisp-oriented. The other options sound useful in the abstract sense, but they are all just different renderings of the same data model. > Now it would obviously be _much_ more helpful if we had some window > with an example file open, and we had active buttons in the info text > that made a certain setting and reran preview-latex on the example > window, showing the effects of each change immediately. When done, > we could press a button for saving the changes. I think everyone can agree on this :) > Also, one would want a certain integration with customize. Absolutely, but I think that variables local to the assistant should also be allowed. For instance, if the user was choosing between 4 non-exclusive options that could take him down different paths, the variable to hold the list of options would be convenient but not necessarily at the global customize level (it would be just a 'set in this case). > In short: I think there are a lot of synergies one could gain from > getting some mechanisms for a closer coupling of the info/Texinfo > system with Emacs. The relevant file format need not be info, but > the ability to get printed and HTML versions at least for > informational purposes should not lightly be dismissed. Agreed. Ted