From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs setup assistants Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:41:06 -0400 Organization: =?koi8-r?q?=F4=C5=CF=C4=CF=D2=20=FA=CC=C1=D4=C1=CE=CF=D7?= @ Cienfuegos Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <4n4qqcfjz1.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1084988705 21861 80.91.224.253 (19 May 2004 17:45:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:45:05 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed May 19 19:44:53 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BQV7c-0005Um-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 19:44:52 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BQV7c-0004Ip-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 19:44:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BQUnW-00009U-OX for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BQUnP-00008f-91 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:23:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BQUmt-0008TZ-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:23:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [80.91.224.249] (helo=main.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BQUNt-0003PY-QM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 12:57:43 -0400 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BQUNt-0003ik-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 18:57:37 +0200 Original-Received: from asimov.bwh.harvard.edu ([134.174.9.63]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 18:57:37 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by asimov.bwh.harvard.edu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 18:57:37 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 45 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: asimov.bwh.harvard.edu X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:aqQMaPdNK65AhMpbBA8OCfiQaew= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:23722 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:23722 On Wed, 19 May 2004, rms@gnu.org wrote: > @title Configuring Gnus for reading news > @node Server name and port > @variable server :string (gnus-getenv-nntpserver) > @variable port :number 119 > @validate > (let ((stream > > This would require changes in Texinfo, which would > make it very hard. > > Can you design it to use existing Texinfo constructs? For instance, > just use @example instead of @validate. Use @defopt instead of > @variable. But they are very different things - @validate holds an ELisp action distinct from @reset, for instance (@reset is needed when we need to reset the assistant variables to the defaults). At the very least it should be @example{validate} or something like that, and by then you may as well have a separate syntax. I think with @ifassistant tags, what's above should not be too much trouble in terms of making changes to Texinfo itself. There would have to be a special Emacs-only renderer for the @ifassistant sections and I don't know how difficult that would be to write, but it should not affect the other aspects of Texinfo. The assistant writers can ensure that every @ifassistant section has alternate text for those who can't render the section. > You can design some convention for giving the extra info that you > need, so it will show up in the Info file or ASCII output. I really don't think that's possible. I started writing some of these assistants for Gnus, and they simply would not make sense outside Emacs because we need ELisp for variable definition, initialization, and validation. Otherwise you have to make up an alternate data language to achieve the same things, and it's just as painful while twice as difficult to learn (yes, XML was mentioned). In HTML you may be able to simulate the assistants with JavaScript or XForms, but I really don't think that's worth the trouble. I can't imagine how an assistant could be rendered in ASCII. Ted