From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] scratch/widen-less a4ba846: Replace prog-widen with consolidating widen calls Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 02:10:09 +0200 Message-ID: <4f6d0934-de56-b352-7aa3-4434ec6a736d@yandex.ru> References: <20171129233237.27462.23351@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20171129233238.504B5204F1@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <5d668ce5-1482-a3d4-c01b-7d996a532567@yandex.ru> <20171130214621.GA22157@ACM> <27985594-3bb4-ce88-8928-2ccfeac13eae@yandex.ru> <20171201154913.GB3840@ACM> <3549c65b-e545-bd47-c25b-3a2c1e730804@yandex.ru> <021066bf-729d-4305-3e09-9b76ba353e0d@yandex.ru> <8352c7cc-a766-6b1f-5e9e-bb0c17256d4c@yandex.ru> <83shcszdji.fsf@gnu.org> <83efobyxfz.fsf@gnu.org> <1684cb2f-8439-79ee-5319-0f52215e1dea@yandex.ru> <83k1y2xx6g.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1512432640 31350 195.159.176.226 (5 Dec 2017 00:10:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 00:10:40 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:57.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/57.0 Cc: acm@muc.de, tom@tromey.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, spinuvit@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 05 01:10:28 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eM0od-0007Ip-My for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 01:10:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45769 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eM0of-0006Uy-Rn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 19:10:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34612) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eM0oU-0006Ut-JL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 19:10:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eM0oQ-00043Y-Ky for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 19:10:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wr0-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::235]:38161) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eM0oQ-00042I-D2; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 19:10:14 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wr0-x235.google.com with SMTP id o2so19189981wro.5; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:10:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=X1EEjy+uL/pigX5taFZSBy+2rt1AdpEPeKE/KfHLjxg=; b=lkK79Oc3G2yOvMZxxVhhoKlUMxIRK9c1XyvyrWipS8h0oiqTNh1jm7tg+CCsD0zbsB Bx5TgBITU6zBmkPKiTG/DX60XC8SESogTFowQ2vAwci3FanvsPZysJCFVOo25vtn0oxF l9X2B0tPMz8GBcGLutwyD7g30LCZebR2c4CbtyENt8w3jqVNc9MRCnvRsCCsZ4n0yLHM HCjE5jO2ZHIZROORSWGno2+QAzFXhkt82gBiI5NN7L5WTqydINCVTyFQjTfT7fCnTL+s M/4yS9ARcs2r3dsWP7/2K24EAxT32bpY9VbcD6uy7k+HKbzDFj7Npd6cVcbd7uBdH1CN hNuA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=X1EEjy+uL/pigX5taFZSBy+2rt1AdpEPeKE/KfHLjxg=; b=Ft7Qat4HWBqLu3X8o1EpBnwEyZxuWL1E/56mwVc8k0vvP3ccAFetOLS1re70NaFju0 A9thpGI/VSJHdFBokbxD1n88HoH+Q625A233w1cIp7rxgxYgrTnEhqQh1JISn0qYuUza hSTKlwuf6JEUToWBtUmEhWWnnSy51H54rmZVtcdEZqNcH8hUxhZKRM7fLq3VJhsHk8wp ZFmEF2qD8sayELlNKMrh2HeLAbIw8jssXlG7LNIi8Iuxa18YiZWIeROBTWNsagxmYc+Q mVp+jO4KJY2H4HuBRE43qpRB3He7LxKpNcdtp3ntssHXYv8gVpX2+KwMS06GpSxKzks7 YdKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIKpjBUV26D87tBWa0h5OTBGN27V0IuRItkiS7XZ8iJNWdprQyB U0gahXDv7xPVmRhfMFEtegkrJaXo X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbzymwpgoJ0iCxfIjMEdZNX4PVurEM5v8eCXQT5B+sNhbwjgWZo4AdYg+6HWaLMZUHChDyryw== X-Received: by 10.223.150.163 with SMTP id u32mr8919591wrb.157.1512432612883; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:10:12 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([185.105.174.193]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id h10sm13125990wrf.47.2017.12.04.16.10.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:10:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83k1y2xx6g.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c0c::235 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220728 Archived-At: On 12/4/17 6:41 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Point is, putting mmm-mode in ELPA or not is the developer's choice. > > That's true, but why would a developer object to including his/her > package in Emacs? It will get better integration, better maintenance, > better publicity, etc. Sounds like win-win to me. Better control over releases, faster to get fixes to the users. That's if we're comparing "in Emacs only" with "in ELPA only". If the package is released to both, I have no experience with that, but I imagine there needs to be some extra work synchronizing, as well as making sure the APIs are compatible, at least (to which set of versions of Emacs? I'm not sure...). Overall, I'm in favor of "modular Emacs", and so I'd rather ask why include this particular package, and how it would benefit. Users being able to avoid using ELPA is a very minor difference, in my mind, especially compared to benefits above. mmm-mode, in particular, is designed to work "outside in", with little support from the code inside Emacs, so it shouldn't need much support over the years, not much more than it would get being part of ELPA, at least. Further, I'm not sure that its way of doing things (the user-facing part) is best. Maybe polymode has it thought out better, I have not studied it well enough. Or an extraction from mhtml-mode would turn out better still. Putting an MMM package into Emacs would seem like a choice of the better package, and I'd rather we have several equally supported ones, at least until one comes out decisively at the top.