From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jude DaShiell Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Configuration files vs customization Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:24:40 -0500 Message-ID: <4eeb2474-a8fb-502d-f145-a1385a11265e@panix.com> References: <25548.5130.933634.159947@woitok.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5101"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Dr Rainer Woitok , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 21 18:26:02 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pJHcv-00016c-RS for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 18:26:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJHcE-0007Lz-70; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:25:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJHcC-0007Lq-UJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:25:16 -0500 Original-Received: from l2mail1.panix.com ([166.84.1.75]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJHcB-0003CY-BM for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:25:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mailbackend.panix.com (mailbackend.panix.com [166.84.1.89]) by l2mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Nzjt54hNZzDW2 for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:25:01 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Nzjsh39QDz3rmc; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:24:40 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=panix.com; s=panix; t=1674321880; bh=ZpYOwN0FM75s6Ybnmhm84aXhkUrOCeMmSF4TOKWBods=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=NytayWDBIaQJIeWR+yL3RbVKeCtWc6Ko864ltPGvPdOwpY87ypjDR0IDZPLWxoEPd fsuI8v/miL+a2qHb6liEmT3b/bcwo9K98Mi0MIbMESQCZ9R69SK9FylB5Za51XkAct 3eDA2L4MYXKv/TDUhn7fHxSUtuu0xZ2eLkuD+5+0= Original-Received: by panix1.panix.com (Postfix, from userid 20712) id 4Nzjsh2QqYzcbc; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:24:40 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by panix1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Nzjsh2DYGzcbC; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 12:24:40 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <25548.5130.933634.159947@woitok.gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=166.84.1.75; envelope-from=jdashiel@panix.com; helo=l2mail1.panix.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:142480 Archived-At: I prefer configuration to customization since once a file is in place it's shareable so if I get something wrong in configuration it can be checked by other eyes. With customization especially in the case of the o-p, there's no way possible to clean that up outside of customization and likely no way for others to examine current state of customization and give good advice on how to correct it to get things working. Jude "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) . On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote: > Greetings, > > in the course of my transition from XEmacs to Emacs I meanwhile have > reached the point of getting Vm running under Emacs. But my first at- > tempt utterly failed. After some experimenting and checking variable > values with "C-h v" I came to the conclusion that at least in some vari- > ables' descriptions the remark "You can customize this variable" really > meant "You HAVE TO customize this variable". > > So eventually I removed everything customizable from my ".vm" configu- > ration file and customized it instead. And then Vm worked as expected. > > Why is that? Do I have to use "defvar" rather than "setq" in my ".vm" > configuration file to mark these variables as dynamically bound? > > Personally, I hate this clicky-clicky customization interface because it > doesn't evaluate the values, even though function "custom-set-variables" > provides an option to do so. Thus you can't use things like '(getenv > "HOME")', '(getenv "HOST")' or '(cond ...)'. The lack of this flexibi- > lity makes configuration rather tricky. And according to the comment > > ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. > ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. > > function "custom-set-variables" writes into my "custom.el" file, putting > a call to "custom-set-variables" together with the Vm specific customi- > zation directly into configuration file ".vm" is not expected to work. > > So being forced to put more or less all application specific configura- > tion into one big "custom.el" file which on top of all does only accept > constants as values is quite a nuisance for me. Originally, having se- > parate configuration files like ".vm" or ".gnus.el" had the purpose not > to clutter one's "init.el" file and to save time when firing up Emacs > without also starting Vm or Gnus. > > How do others solve these configuration problems? > > Sincerely, > Rainer > >