From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Change of Lisp syntax for "fancy" quotes in Emacs 27? Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 07:54:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c4daafa-dcc9-46d2-a663-59280c67e57d@default> References: <83o9l6bhfs.fsf@gnu.org> <1fedc60d-35a7-4ff0-adbb-b6b8306d192f@default> <83wozu9f6r.fsf@gnu.org> <87r2q1r1tn.fsf@web.de> <20180204111550.GA4919@ACM> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1517759632 27246 195.159.176.226 (4 Feb 2018 15:53:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 15:53:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Alan Mackenzie , Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 04 16:53:48 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eiMba-0005Iu-Ae for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 16:53:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36429 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiMdb-0005zL-Kg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:55:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36843) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiMcb-0005mC-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:54:26 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiMca-0005Nv-VT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:54:25 -0500 Original-Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:33910) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eiMcX-0005I5-7z; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:54:21 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w14FrARt022109; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 15:54:18 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=OZWc3FckVxM08ANIC8lPI7qz9sAosxz5Hsg8M4ZovE4=; b=QDboSiOcjcFQR/6DTaE2L9QFqkRRSkgJ8T66kTQl9zDNNqw9b+H7j29BugwfMrTuH1bD gz+FprFDSX8EgrsvQHd/T2QYLYhitelBvJIvHXxhvT3D8W2xdYWUD9Awbu7PQOLhApfZ MRpD8Ruq+kIyFNom8xs1YtGkRtrCeH0QpW85+YZ3A5r5llfhf6ohvr4PKKao5eNbvpuo 41jugnH41frR4oj3zY8AtE3qEXHlC7o3O0ryIka2BP2g2q2Y4fTXtOI4nlSKCS1vcR8m Sv3P/Z5wE49vycY4aBwaJGrOa5ujaLSaJ1kFqN+hk41eV8NqXZTsALoci0paFEcAb5h2 bw== Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2fx53fr0tg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 04 Feb 2018 15:54:18 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w14FsGrc022956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 Feb 2018 15:54:17 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w14FsFus004867; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 15:54:15 GMT In-Reply-To: <20180204111550.GA4919@ACM> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4639.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8794 signatures=668662 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=702 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1802040213 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:222507 Archived-At: > We're not talking about typos here. The curly quotes aren't present on > typical keyboard layouts (though I'm informed they are present on > Finnish keyboards), so nobody who isn't Finnish will type one of these > characters by accident. We're talking about Emacs itself corrupting > ASCII quotes into curly quotes in a `message' call because of the > default setting of `text-quoting-style', and so on. >=20 > Because of this, the error message should concentrate on that quote, not > the strange symbol, which Emacs itself created. Not necessarily. Although I share your concern about Emacs promulgating curly quotes, there is a real usage problem akin to "typos": users copying text, including Lisp code, from a web page or elsewhere, and pasting it into Emacs as code to be evaluated at some point. If the source of the copy has already changed simple apostrophe to a curly quote (as one example) then that's what gets passed to Emacs. The person copy+pasting may well have no clue about just which characters are being copied.