From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#43115: 26.3; Info menu Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 09:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4bdb7e9b-fe4c-41e6-98c9-be4761fa2977@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28930"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: 43115@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 30 18:14:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPy5-0007Qd-6P for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 18:14:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57478 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPy4-0003K1-8s for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:14:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36792) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPxy-0003Jv-R7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:14:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:39089) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPxy-0002d8-Ia for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:14:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPxy-0006rV-Cu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:14:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 16:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 43115 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.159880400126316 (code B ref -1); Sun, 30 Aug 2020 16:14:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Aug 2020 16:13:21 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50634 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPxI-0006qO-MQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:13:20 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:36942) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPxG-0006qF-TI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:13:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36714) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPxG-0003DZ-Mz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:13:18 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:53144) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kCPxE-0002bZ-Lr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:13:18 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07UGAn3V068232 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 16:13:15 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=vqxfx4I0F+HxjS9Wkh9kUIQsRSwfyeeiTYoV6Yr1diw=; b=xISGQjIg1iLCgep+qEeLKe5CFoPISutmr78ZU0VamHFKWBhfv62rLH/drI4gNnsIzcpS VG5l0zMYodgKaRq7LYmt3vdFQQ29ulTFYK8dIwDIQILznAmd0STg/6op0DRCUvyNU3/e 8OJsvKUaVMpl2eI0szKHRnawyNKTnN1+m0CI3jLc2MukINLvMMjCf+2dNbfVv5KKYCFS gw8P7gMe2INhgD32eiziw5w18OQAFj8jlKdht5e1CFZsyWTjw0Z70xu4h5jxn9wK74d0 yn7zhQg7HU7Bzcw/M5yoOr4yoT0Oa1DnJLPyhkBc6OEK005wnoFTKudR/SLVeNVqs2Op Fg== Original-Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 337qrha6s8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 16:13:14 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07UGAUbt157842 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 16:13:14 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3380wwx19e-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 16:13:14 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 07UGD8XQ022488 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 16:13:13 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5044.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9729 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=875 adultscore=0 suspectscore=1 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008300130 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9729 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=879 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 suspectscore=1 priorityscore=1501 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008300130 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=156.151.31.85; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=userp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/30 12:13:15 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:186713 Archived-At: Please consider updating the Info menu. For one thing, it should have an item for incremental search, which nowadays is far more useful than `s'. Most important is to promote use of the Index. Consider putting this submenu first in the menu. Follow it with other search/lookup items. Put navigation keys later in the menu. Maybe organize into submenus: Index, Search, Menu Item, History, Navigation. As it is now, the menu is cluttered with navigation keys. Navigation can be last, IMO, especially as it's covered also by the header and breadcrumbs. Findig `l' and `r' is more important, and more difficult, than finding `n' etc. The most important key to promote is `i'. In a way, it's too bad that this is in a submenu (Index). If (nonincremental) `Search Next' is to be in the menu then please show its key explicitly as `s'. The menu should serve especially as a bridge to using keyboard keys - for discovery. Don't encourage or force users to repeatedly use menu item `Search Next'. Consider giving a key binding to `info-apropos'. (I bind it to `a' in `info+.el'.) Consider changing the name of item `Reference' to `Related' or `Follow Link' or something else that users might better understand than `Reference'. Please change "indices" to "indexes" (everywhere). Just google for "indexes versus indices" to see why (including, but not limited to, the fact that Emacs uses American English). Finally, at least on MS Windows, the `l' and `I' keys shown as shortcuts are difficult or impossible to distinguish. And the right arrow for a submenu is difficult to distinguish from character `>' (the latter is ever-so-slightly farther to the right). Dunno whether something can be done about this problem, but IMO we should try to do better. HTH. In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3''