Meta key definition in a linux console

Meta key definition in a linux console

[Olivier Sirven]

Hello there,

I run a Mac laptop with emacs 23 and everything is just fine, my meta
key is defined to my command key and I'm happy with it. But when I
ssh to a distant linux machine and run an emacs 23 session in console
mode I don't have any other ways to access meta but by using ESC key
which is far from being an ergonomical solution. 
As this emacs version is compiled for linux, there is no such variable
as "mac-command-modifier" and I don't know how to tell emacs (or the
console) to use the command key as meta.

Any ideas would be just great!

Thanks

-- 
Olivier

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Colin S. Miller]

Olivier Sirven wrote:
> Hello there,
> 
> I run a Mac laptop with emacs 23 and everything is just fine, my meta
> key is defined to my command key and I'm happy with it. But when I
> ssh to a distant linux machine and run an emacs 23 session in console
> mode I don't have any other ways to access meta but by using ESC key
> which is far from being an ergonomical solution. 
> As this emacs version is compiled for linux, there is no such variable
> as "mac-command-modifier" and I don't know how to tell emacs (or the
> console) to use the command key as meta.
> 
> Any ideas would be just great!
> 
> Thanks
> 

Olivier,
if you log in using "ssh -X" (capital X, lowercase disables X-forwarding),
then ssh will wrap an X-window connection from
the remote machine back to local machine, and set up any xauth information.
Then you can use the remote emacs as an X application.


HTH,
Colin S. Miller
-- 
Replace the obvious in my email address with the first three letters of the hostname to reply.

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Olivier Sirven]

"Colin S. Miller" <no-spam-thank-you@csmiller.demon.co.uk> writes:

> if you log in using "ssh -X" (capital X, lowercase disables X-forwarding),
> then ssh will wrap an X-window connection from
> the remote machine back to local machine, and set up any xauth information.
> Then you can use the remote emacs as an X application.
Thanks Colin I already know that and that's not want I want. I want to
use emacs in console mode only because I don't want to install X on my
distant servers.

Olivier

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Lowell Gilbert]

"Colin S. Miller" <no-spam-thank-you@csmiller.demon.co.uk> writes:

> Olivier Sirven wrote:
>> Hello there,
>>
>> I run a Mac laptop with emacs 23 and everything is just fine, my meta
>> key is defined to my command key and I'm happy with it. But when I
>> ssh to a distant linux machine and run an emacs 23 session in console
>> mode I don't have any other ways to access meta but by using ESC key
>> which is far from being an ergonomical solution. As this emacs
>> version is compiled for linux, there is no such variable
>> as "mac-command-modifier" and I don't know how to tell emacs (or the
>> console) to use the command key as meta.
>>
>> Any ideas would be just great!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
> Olivier,
> if you log in using "ssh -X" (capital X, lowercase disables X-forwarding),
> then ssh will wrap an X-window connection from
> the remote machine back to local machine, and set up any xauth information.
> Then you can use the remote emacs as an X application.

If I recall correctly, the Mac doesn't come with X (Window System)
installed by default.  The Installer knows about it, though.

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Pascal J. Bourguignon]

Olivier Sirven <the.slaa@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello there,
>
> I run a Mac laptop with emacs 23 and everything is just fine, my meta
> key is defined to my command key and I'm happy with it. But when I
> ssh to a distant linux machine and run an emacs 23 session in console
> mode I don't have any other ways to access meta but by using ESC key
> which is far from being an ergonomical solution. 
> As this emacs version is compiled for linux, there is no such variable
> as "mac-command-modifier" and I don't know how to tell emacs (or the
> console) to use the command key as meta.
>
> Any ideas would be just great!

Use a terminal (emulator) that is able to encode the Meta- key as the
8th bit.  Emacs should be able to recognize it more or less
automatically. (Ask again if you get accented characters instead of M-).

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Colin S. Miller]

Olivier Sirven wrote:
> "Colin S. Miller" <no-spam-thank-you@csmiller.demon.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> if you log in using "ssh -X" (capital X, lowercase disables X-forwarding),
>> then ssh will wrap an X-window connection from
>> the remote machine back to local machine, and set up any xauth information.
>> Then you can use the remote emacs as an X application.
> Thanks Colin I already know that and that's not want I want. I want to
> use emacs in console mode only because I don't want to install X on my
> distant servers.
> 
> Olivier

Olivier,

You are probably aware of this, but for the benefit of others,
to run an X-application on a remote machine via ssh,
it is not necessary to install X on the remote machine,
only the libraries for the X application, and xauth.

For emacs21 the .so list (from /proc/pid/maps) is

ld-2.7      libc-2.7     libdl-2.7
libgif      libICE       libjpeg
libm-2.7    libncurses   libnsl-2.7
libnss_compat-2.7 libnss_files-2.7 libnss_nis-2.7
libpng12    libSM        libtiff
libX11      libXau       libXaw3d
libxcb      libxcb-xlib  libXcursor
libXdmcp    libXext      libXfixes
libXmu      libXpm       libXrender
libXt       libz


Colin S. Miller

-- 
Replace the obvious in my email address with the first three letters of the hostname to reply.

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Suvayu Ali]

Hi Olivier,

On Thursday 20 August 2009 04:23 AM, Olivier Sirven wrote:
> "Colin S. Miller"<no-spam-thank-you@csmiller.demon.co.uk>  writes:
>
>> if you log in using "ssh -X" (capital X, lowercase disables X-forwarding),
>> then ssh will wrap an X-window connection from
>> the remote machine back to local machine, and set up any xauth information.
>> Then you can use the remote emacs as an X application.
> Thanks Colin I already know that and that's not want I want. I want to
> use emacs in console mode only because I don't want to install X on my
> distant servers.
>

How about using tramp instead? I find it the most wonderful 
functionality in emacs for remote file editing. To use it just open a 
file in your local emacs with 
`/ssh:user@host:/path/to/file/on/remote/machine'. If you use ssh_keys 
then you don't even need to enter your password, feels almost like a 
local file.

GL :)

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Olivier Sirven]

Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday 20 August 2009 04:23 AM, Olivier Sirven wrote:
>> "Colin S. Miller"<no-spam-thank-you@csmiller.demon.co.uk>  writes:
>>
>>> if you log in using "ssh -X" (capital X, lowercase disables X-forwarding),
>>> then ssh will wrap an X-window connection from
>>> the remote machine back to local machine, and set up any xauth information.
>>> Then you can use the remote emacs as an X application.
>> Thanks Colin I already know that and that's not want I want. I want to
>> use emacs in console mode only because I don't want to install X on my
>> distant servers.
>>
>
> How about using tramp instead? I find it the most wonderful
> functionality in emacs for remote file editing. To use it just open a
> file in your local emacs with
> /ssh:user@host:/path/to/file/on/remote/machine'. If you use ssh_keys
> then you don't even need to enter your password, feels almost like a
> local file.
Tramp is just fine for some purposes but not in this case. Let me
explain how I work on my distant file so you understand why I really
need my emacs to fully work in console mode.

I have a screen running on my distant server which is very useful to
me because it contains all the stuff I need to be able to work nicely:
remote connections to my other servers, database connection, some shell
commands running foreground and of course my emacs. And thanks to screen
I can use any available desktop computer or laptor to connect to my
server and get back my work desktop exactly how I left it.

That's why I really need my emacs console mode to be fully functional
even if I use a Mac to connect to it.

-- 
Olivier

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Xah Lee]

On Aug 20, 4:50 am, Lowell Gilbert <lguse...@be-well.ilk.org> wrote:
> If I recall correctly, the Mac doesn't come with X (Window System)
> installed by default.  The Installer knows about it, though.


LOL. spreading bad info.

Mac comes with Apple's own OSX integrated X11 bundled in the OS
Install CD since maybe 2004 or so.

It used to be it's not installed by default, not sure what's the
situation now.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Xah Lee]

On Aug 20, 2:42 am, Olivier Sirven <the.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello there,
>
> I run a Mac laptop with emacs 23 and everything is just fine, my meta
> key is defined to my command key and I'm happy with it. But when I
> ssh to a distant linux machine and run an emacs 23 session in console
> mode I don't have any other ways to access meta but by using ESC key
> which is far from being an ergonomical solution.
> As this emacs version is compiled for linux, there is no such variable
> as "mac-command-modifier" and I don't know how to tell emacs (or the
> console) to use the command key as meta.
>
> Any ideas would be just great!

i read the thread but seems your question is not very clear.

whether meta key works or what your keyboard hardware key invokes it
is a local issue, nothing to do with remote emacs...

If you are on Mac OS X, you are using Terminal right? In Terminal
preference, you can find a checkbox that lets you have Option key as
meta. That simply just works, if i understand you correctly.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Olivier Sirven]

Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> writes:

> On Aug 20, 2:42 am, Olivier Sirven <the.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you are on Mac OS X, you are using Terminal right? In Terminal
> preference, you can find a checkbox that lets you have Option key as
> meta. That simply just works, if i understand you correctly.
Yes doing so makes meta work using the Option key but it's not a valid
option to me: I have to use the Option key to be able to write some
characters like [,{,],},| so if I use Option as Meta it means I am not
able anymore to access these characters.

-- 
Olivier

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Helmut Eller]

* Olivier Sirven [2009-08-20 11:42+0200] writes:

> Hello there,
>
> I run a Mac laptop with emacs 23 and everything is just fine, my meta
> key is defined to my command key and I'm happy with it. But when I
> ssh to a distant linux machine and run an emacs 23 session in console
> mode I don't have any other ways to access meta but by using ESC key
> which is far from being an ergonomical solution. 
> As this emacs version is compiled for linux, there is no such variable
> as "mac-command-modifier" and I don't know how to tell emacs (or the
> console) to use the command key as meta.
>
> Any ideas would be just great!

Usually you have to set the proper TERM environment variable on the
remote machine and the remote machine needs the have an terminfo entry
for the value that you specify with TERM.  The terminfo database is
usually stored under /usr/share/terminfo (on the remote machine because
Emacs needs to read it.)

For Apple's terminal.app you can try: export TERM=Apple_Terminal 
on the Linux box.  You can also try nsterm or vt100.

I'm not familiar with Apple products and whether Meta can be used in
Emacs depends on the description in the terminfo database.  For a long
time even the entries for xterm weren't very good and the Apple stuff is
most likely pretty bad.  Terminal.app might also have some menu which
let's you say "send esc for meta".  But that's only a workaround for
broken terminfo descriptions.

Helmut

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Xah Lee]

On Aug 20, 9:09 am, Olivier Sirven <the.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Aug 20, 2:42 am, Olivier Sirven <the.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you are on Mac OS X, you are using Terminal right? In Terminal
> > preference, you can find a checkbox that lets you have Option key as
> > meta. That simply just works, if i understand you correctly.
>
> Yes doing so makes meta work using the Option key but it's not a valid
> option to me: I have to use the Option key to be able to write some
> characters like [,{,],},| so if I use Option as Meta it means I am not
> able anymore to access these characters.

Ah ok. Your question is now clear. There are other terminal apps you
can try, which allows you to set Meta to Cmd.  Search the mac fan
sites you'll find them. Personally i've never tried them.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Lowell Gilbert]

Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> writes:

> On Aug 20, 4:50 am, Lowell Gilbert <lguse...@be-well.ilk.org> wrote:
>> If I recall correctly, the Mac doesn't come with X (Window System)
>> installed by default.  The Installer knows about it, though.
>
>
> LOL. spreading bad info.
>
> Mac comes with Apple's own OSX integrated X11 bundled in the OS
> Install CD since maybe 2004 or so.
>
> It used to be it's not installed by default, not sure what's the
> situation now.

Bad info?  You said *exactly* what I did.  It doesn't come installed by
default, but the Mac system "Installer" has it as a standard package.

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Xah Lee]

On Aug 20, 11:13 am, Lowell Gilbert <lguse...@be-well.ilk.org> wrote:
> Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Aug 20, 4:50 am, Lowell Gilbert <lguse...@be-well.ilk.org> wrote:
> >> If I recall correctly, the Mac doesn't come with X (Window System)
> >> installed by default.  The Installer knows about it, though.
>
> > LOL. spreading bad info.
>
> > Mac comes with Apple's own OSX integrated X11 bundled in the OS
> > Install CD since maybe 2004 or so.
>
> > It used to be it's not installed by default, not sure what's the
> > situation now.
>
> Bad info?  You said *exactly* what I did.  It doesn't come installed by
> default, but the Mac system "Installer" has it as a standard package.

lol. Right, my mistake.

 Xah

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Sumit Narayan]

Are you using Terminal.app or X11 on Mac?

If you are using X11, did you try putting

Xterm*termName xterm

in ~/.Xdefaults?

Sumit.



On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Lowell Gilbert<lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> wrote:
> Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Aug 20, 4:50 am, Lowell Gilbert <lguse...@be-well.ilk.org> wrote:
>>> If I recall correctly, the Mac doesn't come with X (Window System)
>>> installed by default.  The Installer knows about it, though.
>>
>>
>> LOL. spreading bad info.
>>
>> Mac comes with Apple's own OSX integrated X11 bundled in the OS
>> Install CD since maybe 2004 or so.
>>
>> It used to be it's not installed by default, not sure what's the
>> situation now.
>
> Bad info?  You said *exactly* what I did.  It doesn't come installed by
> default, but the Mac system "Installer" has it as a standard package.
>

Re: Meta key definition in a linux console

[Olivier Sirven]

I'm using iTerm.app or Terminal.app
I tried adding these lines too to /etc/inputrc without any success:
“\e[1~”: beginning-of-line
“\e[4~”: end-of-line
“\e[5~”: beginning-of-history
“\e[6~”: end-of-history
“\e[3~”: delete-char
“\e[2~”: quoted-insert
“\e[5C”: forward-word
“\e[5D”: backward-word
“\e\e[C”: forward-word
“\e\e[D”: backward-word

# Enable 8bit input
set meta-flag On
set input-meta On

# Turns off 8th bit stripping
set convert-meta Off

# Keep the 8th bit for display
set output-meta On

Sumit Narayan <sumnaray@gmail.com> writes:

> Are you using Terminal.app or X11 on Mac?
>
> If you are using X11, did you try putting
>
> Xterm*termName xterm
>
> in ~/.Xdefaults?

Olivier