From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Riley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs should have a good web-browser Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 22:58:50 +0200 Organization: aich tea tea pea dicky riley dot net Message-ID: <4a55088b.02135e0a.2695.ffffbd6f@mx.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247087245 11117 80.91.229.12 (8 Jul 2009 21:07:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 21:07:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 08 23:07:17 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MOeMG-0000MM-Kn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:07:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47980 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MOeMG-0008UI-3Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:07:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MOeEH-0000xJ-Jm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:59:01 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MOeEC-0000sm-2B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:59:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39936 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MOeEB-0000sZ-Nd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:58:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com ([209.85.218.213]:52357) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MOeEA-0002MZ-F4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:58:55 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz9 with SMTP id 9so641091bwz.42 for ; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:58:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:from:to:cc:subject :organization:references:date:in-reply-to:user-agent:mime-version :content-type; bh=eQ+gMnuZH2cEbYTdvr/4L24V16ywJ7g+F1BezokHlQw=; b=h+DrN8TWZUnW4S2iq19XnhIzQNdWaOOZGEfX4NClrnz5/wMD5qjeNYg4FOXJb8zZsK U8B7Y7x+UCjJvwRTrfJFUuKvP+jhVbtrVWWRpAJxL8QVXK9wSikDUwwOiJUwf3czy2bc 7SGF0PQN26gOMyb4jpLQWFlwEHdbGJpUBzIU8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:cc:subject:organization:references:date :in-reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; b=SjHLZKoYVcv/SbINhWNrsOy8kqOT8KLMpaIhjErQRAjmw0uhrwmvwFgC1JdpWbmxy1 8+SjZI67Rk0s0HMUIcByNfoakdW8Nk2N9YTrLvivPhflKBXFFMGC74It44GP0Bkbvary cQRu3STMZ1uDC8RkWiJ2V6ZvbP1+oO+5OostE= Original-Received: by 10.204.124.7 with SMTP id s7mr7306843bkr.105.1247086732746; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([85.183.18.158]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 2sm16713457fks.33.2009.07.08.13.58.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:58:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Fernando's message of "Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:11:15 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:05:07 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112198 Archived-At: Fernando writes: > Hello. > Sorry if this is not the right place, but I wanted to ask some > questions to the community and expose some arguments. > > First, I would like to know if you agree about the reasons for having > a web browser in Emacs (either as part of it or as an external lisp > package). > > 1) One of the main purposes of Emacs is programming. Web development, > css and JavaScript are emerging languages present a lot in the > internet since a long time and now they are even extending to the > desktop (gnome-shell, seed, adium themes...). Emacs has modes and > tools to edit on this languages, but the integration is not as good as > it could be if you had js and html interpreters integrated in Emacs > itself. > > 2) There are very few web browsers that are comfortable to use in a > keyboard-only interface. Emacs would be very good in this sense > because its keyboard navigation is very usable and as it's designed > for editing text, it will be perfect for all the form editing, comment > writing and all the editing related actions you have to do often in a > browser (editing wikipedia articles, etc). > > 3) Emacspeak has turned Emacs into a very accessible environment for > the visual-impaired and it would offer these people a highly > customizable interface to help them browse the web, along with the > keybindings. > > 4) Emacs since long time has been one of the greatest tools for an > operative system. During the Age Of The Usenet it was an good > newsreader. Now that the newsgroups have started to die slowly and the > HTTP protocol and Javascript are the kings of the big cloud Emacs > should adapt to it. > > 5) Browsers are turning into the next generation Emacs! they can > browse ftp, access IRC channels, check your mail, read pdf and other > things with embeded applications, now they can even play video/audio > as a core functionality, they are often used for editing text (web > forms, comments in blogs, etc)... there's even the whole "Google > Chrome OS" designed around a browser. Sooner or later they will be > able to edit code (there's even prototypes for this already) when this > happens Emacs has to compete or it will slowly die. Web browsers are > turning into the main program for the end/power-user in a PC, when > they reach Emacs in functionality I'm sure a lot of people (even Emacs > users) would end up switching to hack Javascript instead of LISP. You might be interested in looking at controlling/interacting with Firefox using emacs. Google has more info. I use this below to "refresh" my firefox when I save local web code. I dont know how well polished it is. I guess there is a huge load you can do wit whatever that script language is. ,---- | | (autoload 'moz-minor-mode "moz" "Mozilla Minor and Inferior Mozilla Modes" t) | (add-hook 'espresso-mode-hook 'espresso-custom-setup) | | (require 'moz) | | (defun espresso-custom-setup () | (moz-minor-mode 1)) | | (defun auto-reload-firefox-on-after-save-hook () | (add-hook 'after-save-hook | '(lambda () | (interactive) | (comint-send-string (inferior-moz-process) | "setTimeout(BrowserReload(), \"1000\");")) | 'append 'local)) ; buffer-local | | ;; Example - you may want to add hooks for your own modes. | ;; I also add this to python-mode when doing django development. | (add-hook 'nxhtml-mode-hook 'auto-reload-firefox-on-after-save-hook) | (add-hook 'php-mode-hook 'auto-reload-firefox-on-after-save-hook) | (add-hook 'html-mode-hook 'auto-reload-firefox-on-after-save-hook) | (add-hook 'css-mode-hook 'auto-reload-firefox-on-after-save-hook) `----