From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ken Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Issues with emacs Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:54:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4FE7E0DE.1080300@mousecar.com> References: <87bokbb4zw.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: gebser@mousecar.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340596463 14093 80.91.229.3 (25 Jun 2012 03:54:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 03:54:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: rusi Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 25 05:54:22 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj0NZ-0000Fx-3K for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 05:54:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44938 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj0NY-0005Mc-Sa for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:54:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40819) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj0NU-0005MU-8c for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:54:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj0NS-0001s9-Lv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:54:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194]:56793) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj0NS-0001ru-F0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:54:14 -0400 Original-Received: from dellap.mousecar.net (dsl093-011-016.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.11.16]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MAQc6-1SbpdL0ol0-00BZ4z; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:54:11 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120424 Thunderbird/10.0.4 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:9qQewKecP2AbClyBzTuH84wZvdGvC+2yidcl/I/Ffdw I+6BI/LX1bKlsyv6sjxBdhHsVX8vl+NwiTte//AqzzEhbRcdrO Mw2CGCXG0jeh5emUaskevQldsyqBtsYZ66AHkYptug5OQySQgb s+mTXNd3ASMyduDri8u9jRJ0L1C0LkDiufyJS93lwEJwAAu25M yC9dSGQQT8SInnQNyK7MGSJWoYvHVfXLAgVl+4DGpcSyG2D+Fd 6X3RhzHwbkAfra4Cn0yp1Fi69bpnawginS5sKkiXVy1Oi7v5PU xF1QGGeufkEMA1NNkurbSIsgM7mqfrN+YcHWPrAap1lB6y8RsG r1AXuWf+mNjbuHq0JueN1cKurpzAuyy3KjRpaVx8I X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.208.4.194 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85445 Archived-At: On 06/24/2012 02:39 AM rusi wrote: > On Jun 24, 7:39 am, ken wrote: > >> 5. Make the elisp documentation and tutorials so easy and fun to learn >> that tons of people actually want to write code. > > When I first started reading the emacs/elisp docs around 93 I found > them a model of clarity. > Has that changed much? I dont think so > > .... > > tl;dr version: Saying that emacs manuals are not fun and easy to learn > is wrong. Its just that reading them feels like 1980 I got into computers long before 1980... and read computer manuals back in the '70s just for fun-- even though I didn't then have a computer or access to one. That said, please note that I was referring to *elisp* and never mentioned *emacs*. These are two quite different subjects and equating them and/or their documentation-- to borrow a phrase-- is just wrong. The topic was emacs development and how to encourage it. This requires a knowledge of /elisp/. In the confusion the point I made was lost, so I'll say it again: To encourage development, there could be better elisp documentation and tutorials.