From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?6buE5bu65b+g?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A patch for enforcing double-width CJK character display Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 08:51:27 +0800 Message-ID: <4F8B6D0F.2050700@i-soft.com.cn> References: <4F85A138.6090900@i-soft.com.cn> <87vcl646c7.fsf@isil.kanru.info> <4F85AE69.9050002@i-soft.com.cn> <4F8698B0.2030703@i-soft.com.cn> <83hawp46p7.fsf@gnu.org> <4F86BA0F.4080301@i-soft.com.cn> <83ehrt3u0p.fsf@gnu.org> <4F87173F.3070801@i-soft.com.cn> <4F8782C8.2030005@i-soft.com.cn> <87d379h971.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <877gxghc3d.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1334537506 1894 80.91.229.3 (16 Apr 2012 00:51:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 00:51:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: William Xu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 16 02:51:45 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SJaAS-0006pd-IQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2012 02:51:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59670 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SJaAS-0007xc-0p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:51:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37645) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SJaAP-0007xX-4E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:51:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SJaAN-0007lF-8q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:51:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mta319.sina.net ([202.108.3.197]:26790) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SJaAM-0007kp-Oi; Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:51:39 -0400 X-Originating-IP: [218.240.45.242] Original-Received: from unknown (HELO mta319.sina.net) ([10.54.5.137]) by irxd5-206.sina.net with ESMTP; 16 Apr 2012 08:51:29 +0800 Original-Received: by smtp-5-137.sina.net (SINAMAIL, from userid 6663) id 67C68353031; Mon, 16 Apr 2012 08:51:29 +0800 (CST) Original-Received: from piggy.pure64.org (unknown [218.240.45.242]) by smtp-5-137.sina.net (SINAMAIL) with ESMTPA id 32ECF353019; Mon, 16 Apr 2012 08:51:29 +0800 (CST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/10.0.2 In-Reply-To: <877gxghc3d.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 202.108.3.197 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:149681 Archived-At: 于 2012年04月16日 06:19, Miles Bader 写道: > William Xu writes: >>> BTW, I hope there's a way to disable or tune this... Some CJK fonts seem >>> to be very small (when rendered at the same size as other characters), >>> and I think forcing them to be spaced with 2 * the width of the default >>> font would make CJK characters look weird, with tons of whitespace in >>> between each character.... >> Why would it look weird? > As I said, because sometimes the CJK font chosen for a given > point-size is very small compared to the ASCII font, the point where > each CJK character is almost as small as a single ASCII character. > > [I didn't just make this up, I looked at the fonts being used for my > Emacs on several machines, and thought "hmm, how would this look if > CJK font-spacing was forced to double-width...?"] Would you please provide some example characters and such a font to help us make it better? or If you had a linux environment, you can also try the fix and give some hints. I am a native CJK user and know well about Chinese and a little Japanese/Korean, I really can not understand why shall we use such a small font? As I mentioned, such a small character already unreadable, font design should follow some standards, If I mean to use size 10, but the font give me a very small glyph like size 5, these fonts is really a big problem. Some katakana characters in Japanese may half width, that's OK. as I said, it already be filtered out. In emacs, Ctrl-h h shows a multilingual file, the Japanese string "Japanese (日本語) こんにちは / ｺﾝﾆﾁﾊ" in katakana form is half width. > >> Like the author said, the terminal has rendered it that way for long. > Then the terminal probably does a better job of choosing a CJK font to > match the ASCII font, or simply uses a different ASCII font... > > I guess the point is that there are multiple interrelated issues here: > character-spacing, but also font choice. Yes, I prefer leave the font auto matching. > > Ideally the best solution is to automatically choose good matching > fonts (and give the user powerful methods for overriding such > choices). No such a good font, except use a real CJK monospace fonts, but its English glyphs look weird. > > -miles > -- Huang JianZhong