From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Fu Yuan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Install C source code for for debugging help Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 18:45:07 -0400 Message-ID: <4F3CD911-4F73-4C64-9EB5-23ED639E6DBB@gmail.com> References: <7ba0e94a-6256-c425-aaf8-7ee8822216a7@cs.ucla.edu> <8336gil439.fsf@gnu.org> <1cb04f23-5fa1-c866-41a8-60156d15936d@cs.ucla.edu> <83v9tejjdv.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7apkgn7.fsf@gnu.org> <835zldkfkq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="221289"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Paul Eggert , Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: Noam Postavsky Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 28 00:45:22 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iDyzJ-000vS0-Ky for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 00:45:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58126 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iDyzI-0003aC-7j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 18:45:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45069) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iDyz9-0003a0-J1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 18:45:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDyz8-0000Dx-A4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 18:45:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt1-x82a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a]:37997) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDyz8-00009C-5f; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 18:45:10 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt1-x82a.google.com with SMTP id j31so9296005qta.5; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:45:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=4j5Nt1uMGVSi30b9mW6Y4TWV5SQQ0axNrKLJcHZFTAc=; b=JpsLt8Q/CwYfhPzbvfOQfADoJzvOE6cbAm/5acXnh6NZCPmJGVyYRkhasQQOAhh4VJ nTwMZZoreRMzpMI6LzRQcLcO820WINcXYK+MdkMkXqrBVKGSg8YN9Mbt45p6rILGeeLa IFQP4xcTXr0FdPa+FFac9SOI2DnKpQA83WXVVs7qmytdfOGBx4ovtol0Dpo5FXI5dQfT FFNWW7v0ldRLAToiUYXhOu3yg3Qf59rB+CmMsIupqg7WaQ0FmyST22lyhP9bIodCB2Y0 i0BVHG4LwVM1I+UzHxZzBG4PuhqOM2AYg1wi8VG1kdH8ITfRzAbLRnrAj1kkDFpLZboP j9NA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=4j5Nt1uMGVSi30b9mW6Y4TWV5SQQ0axNrKLJcHZFTAc=; b=gW9p+RD9cFjRI7qBQGDgKpDMtOvUgDATPhZp0AjtBso2k1imQkdtvRRG+dSMOwCfp5 J7xUc8J4YyVExp9vLJObpYe9dgb952QdT8ThUYMF4/aKtujvYa46IIUwbrHDdQTA9cfX 66AP1MMlp/rA3D/zgzIdpdFpVaQXGKgUV/FculFQ42y0QQ/BprgDfKxUgSDwQbBIX4BK 7S2CZr3YLbuf7iz5r7uWtO1fhBAtAmVoG5k2JAmP4uXMVl/uo4llBkxG01kv6KZrsBYK lShl2/WmmW5JnLwcaFk42uFhBSIapbEIFSgE0PF1TLl0BCXegmQHkZqosSEQx8KSEFCP +pXw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWGWYOnAzDRQpkWs1xHR5xOqR6blz2LYJr3uKhMQH/UxHqzVeNS ujKtBtL8zVLszzQrksrjCcc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzI8ji86hByNNwOHO7ZsIDFUkNzq4KJ50l9KRGgIhTLjBOMv/ecThXxRHrv55b8Mryh2Ot39A== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:8e83:: with SMTP id x3mr10000097qvb.95.1569624308972; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-207-8-160.hsd1.pa.comcast.net. [71.207.8.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v5sm3864620qtk.66.2019.09.27.15.45.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:45:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16G102) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:240351 Archived-At: I=E2=80=99m not sure this change worth the effort.=20 I=E2=80=99m not sure being able to C source is that much beneficial to norma= l users as the C source isn=E2=80=99t that easy to make sense of, as opposed= to Elisp sources.=20 Regarding the encourage effect Stefan mentioned, I think Elisp sources alrea= dy have this effect and is better than C source in this aspect because it=E2= =80=99s easier to understand, manipulate and play around with. It is possible that because people on this list all know internal C source o= f Emacs well, you exaggerated the effect of it for normal users. On the other hand, maybe a command that downloads and stores the appropriate= C source could be added. This shouldn=E2=80=99t be very hard to implement a= nd don=E2=80=99t effect the build size. And people that wants to see the C s= ource can achieve it very easily with the help of this command. So what I=E2=80=99m trying to say is that 1) Emacs is already encouraging us= ers to explore (Elisp) source and 2) enabling access to C by default don=E2=80= =99t have much benefit and 3) there might be a good alternative. Just my two cents. - Yuan=