From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:26:26 -0800 Message-ID: <4F31DD52.20303@dancol.org> References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <4F31C3E8.9090208@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigDB7769376975295CF6E8CD89" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328668010 20352 80.91.229.3 (8 Feb 2012 02:26:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 02:26:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Nix , 'egnarts-ms' , Drew Adams , Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 08 03:26:48 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RuxF7-00058z-Fj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 03:26:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52288 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuxF6-00081Z-MZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:26:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:54186) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuxF3-0007zO-Qo for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:26:42 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuxF2-00055y-P2 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:26:41 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([96.126.100.184]:47232) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuxF2-00055u-In for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:26:40 -0500 Original-Received: from c-24-18-179-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([24.18.179.193] helo=edith.local) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RuxEy-0000HL-6S; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:26:36 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120129 Thunderbird/10.0 In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 96.126.100.184 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148345 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigDB7769376975295CF6E8CD89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/7/12 5:53 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>> I've never understood what's wrong with including cl.el, nor why the= >>> The main issue is namespace. If someone goes through the code to ren= ame >>> it all to "cl-*", then we won't need to avoid using it. >=20 >> I don't think the namespace is an issue. A _lot_ of people do, in >> fact, (require 'cl), and packages continue to work for them. If there >> were any serious conflicts, they'd already be fixed. >> In other words, I don't think you can find an elisp package that only >> works properly if cl isn't loaded. >=20 > That's not the issue. The issue is that CL's namespace is really > unclean and that's bad, regardless of whether other packages conflict. While this allegation may be true, cl is so old and so generally useful that it should be grandfathered in. Also, cl.el _does_ take pains to use the "cl-" prefix for internal symbols. It's the public interface that's unprefixed, and for the sake of both convenience and backward compatibility, we shouldn't move the entire CL library into its own namespace until we have some kind of symbol namespace support. --------------enigDB7769376975295CF6E8CD89 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAk8x3VIACgkQ17c2LVA10VuYwgCeME5OOhvLuBYie3wa7Jg8aMVZ YF8AoMmSYs34okxFv5l4QH4g7iWjC7Lu =cJAv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigDB7769376975295CF6E8CD89--