From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David De La Harpe Golden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: quotation marks [was Re: TUTORIAL.de updated] Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 03:27:22 +0000 Message-ID: <4F1B821A.5040100@harpegolden.net> References: <20248.15413.907023.894588@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <4x1uqv4pbx.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> <056566D61BA5441E860782777E736F44@us.oracle.com> <4F18A26A.1020402@cs.ucla.edu> <20120120074922.GA3095@acm.acm> <4F1929BA.7020004@cs.ucla.edu> <838vl24thl.fsf@gnu.org> <4F19E7FC.40301@cs.ucla.edu> <20120121085905.GA3075@acm.acm> <83sjj92vsi.fsf@gnu.org> <20120121111238.GA2747@acm.acm> <83pqed2tn1.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1327202864 11325 80.91.229.12 (22 Jan 2012 03:27:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 03:27:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, ulm@gentoo.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , drew.adams@oracle.com To: Andreas Schwab Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 22 04:27:37 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Roo5e-0004su-Sk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 04:27:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43205 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Roo5e-00070B-1h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 22:27:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:41846) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Roo5a-0006zu-QR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 22:27:31 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Roo5Z-0000of-P5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 22:27:30 -0500 Original-Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]:58513) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Roo5W-0000oK-RZ; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 22:27:26 -0500 Original-Received: from [87.198.47.37] (87-198-47-37.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.47.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3F43368424; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 03:27:24 +0000 (GMT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20120104 Icedove/8.0 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 65.99.215.13 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147822 Archived-At: On 21/01/12 12:52, Andreas Schwab wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:12:38 +0000 >>> Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, ulm@gentoo.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, >>> emacs-devel@gnu.org >>> From: Alan Mackenzie >>> >>> I have an ordinary Linux tty, currently running a Latin-1 character s= et. >> >> Is it possible to run it with the UTF-8 character set? AFAIU, this >> will solve all your problems, while still being compatible with Latin-= 1. > > A console font cannot contain more than 512 characters. > > Andreas. To expand a little, as, while that's true, that doesn't mean there's no way to do it on an X-less system: True text-mode (i.e. PC VGA gfx card) linux kernel VTs inherit that=20 hardware limitation (256 glyphs with 16 colors or 512 glyphs with 8=20 colors) [1] that the kernel can do relatively little about. You can work=20 in unicode (see console-tools docs) ...but you can only set up a font=20 showing a small subset of glyphs at a time. The kernel VTs when on a=20 framebuffer have some fairly similar limits IIRC, despite there not=20 being a hardware reason in that case (lack of demand, compat, shared=20 code, and keeping things simple spring to mind as possible non-hardware=20 reasons, of course). ... However, there is nowadays a way around the limitation (presumably=20 further reducing demand for any more advanced kernel support): Use the userspace =E2=80=9Cfbterm=E2=80=9D [2][3] terminal emulator inste= ad of the linux=20 kernel's more limited built-in. It is essentially a unicode-capable=20 terminal emulator like those commonplace on X11 - but one that targets=20 the framebuffer (and also now vesa modesetting, like (or perhaps using)=20 old libsvga) rather than X11. Though I currently use X11, so have little reason to use fbterm=20 normally, I've just fairly successfully viewed the Hello file (and some=20 curly quotes) in an emacs running under =E2=80=9Cfbterm -n "DejaVu Sans Mono" -s 32 --vesa-mode=3D374=E2=80=9C [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_compatible_text_mode#Fonts [2] http://code.google.com/p/fbterm/ [3] http://packages.debian.org/sid/fbterm