From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Jan D." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Mac OS-compatible ports Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:27:48 +0100 Message-ID: <4EFF1BE4.6020205@swipnet.se> References: <9E637EAB-A0C5-421B-9CCA-71C41442AF52@gmail.com> <87ipl7zaea.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87sjkbib14.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87d3baui4b.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87mxacqlg4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwg3pfy4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739c2dscy.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ehvkdgfr.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325341684 23206 80.91.229.12 (31 Dec 2011 14:28:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:28:04 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 31 15:28:01 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rgzui-0004Pi-Ps for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:28:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37088 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rgzuh-0001DQ-4d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:27:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36744) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rgzue-0001DL-6V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:27:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rgzuc-00044w-N2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:27:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mailout.melmac.se ([62.20.26.67]:53656) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rgzuc-00044s-FK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:27:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mail01.melmac.se (mail01.melmac.se [62.20.26.80]) by mailout.melmac.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05259F88 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:27:50 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: (qmail 28587 invoked by uid 89); 31 Dec 2011 14:26:54 -0000 Original-Received: from h-46-59-42-18.na.cust.bahnhof.se (HELO coolsville.localdomain) (boel.djarv@bdtv.se@46.59.42.18) by mail01.melmac.se with ESMTPA; 31 Dec 2011 14:26:54 -0000 Original-Received: from [172.20.199.2] (gaffa [172.20.199.2]) by coolsville.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5BA507FA058 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:27:50 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 In-Reply-To: <87ehvkdgfr.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-Received-From: 62.20.26.67 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147096 Archived-At: Ted Zlatanov skrev 2011-12-31 14:22: > (changing the thread subject, we've drifted off-topic long enough) > > On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 07:12:58 +0900 YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu wrote: > > YM> When I tried the GNUstep port some time ago, it was quite > YM> unsatisfactory. I thought it might be only for me and the problem > YM> of the GNUstep version I tried or because of my configuration. So I > YM> asked your GNUstep version/configuration because I took it for > YM> granted that those who are backing the GNUstep port at least have > YM> experience of its use, otherwise it looked so irresponsible to me. > > I understand and apologize I was not clearer. > > YM> I even think that pushing software that is far from usable only > YM> because it is for GNUstep might result in lowering the > YM> image/evaluation of GNUstep itself and do harm for the GNU project's > YM> goal, because those who actually tried the GNUstep port will feel > YM> disappointed. > > I agree with your statement, but we're not "pushing" the NS port only > because it's for GNUstep. It's quite usable on Mac OS X. I said that > "in its defense" it is compatible with GNUstep by using the Cocoa API, > which your port isn't. So, to make the current situation clear, the > Mac OS port choice is between: > > 1) NS port: Cocoa API, works on Mac OS X with some issues, compatible > with GNUstep and can work there (it needs lots of work though). Apple > has repeatedly stated Cocoa is the preferred API for Mac OS X > developers, especially for new software. I don't think GNUStep needs "lots" of work, just work :-). AFAIK, it is mainly fonts that are problematic, but then again, fonts in GNUStep (i.e. without Emacs) seems to be a problem. The NS font backend needs work, as it is quite slow and uses old API:s. Jan D.