all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
	Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org>,
	rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Annoyingly cautious make rules
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 22:35:12 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4ED9C320.8070708@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvwrae8aza.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>

On 12/02/11 21:48, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> After that, "make" should take care of rebuilding configure if/when
> needed

There's no practical way for "make" to do that, and Emacs's
current make rules do not do that.  For example, if I manually
edit Makefile.in so that the rule for 'configure' looks like this:

	$(srcdir)/configure: $(AUTOCONF_INPUTS)
		cd ${srcdir} && autoconf
		echo '#foo' >>$@ # <-- I added this line.

then "make" should rebuild "configure".  But "make" does not,
as "Makefile.in" is not a dependency for "configure".

We could fix this particular problem by adding "Makefile.in" as a
dependency for every file that gets built in every directory.
But (1) even that would not suffice in general, and (2) that would
cause more builds to run unnecessarily and annoyingly slowly.

Emacs makefiles, like all practical makefiles, are an
engineering compromise between correctness and speed.  There's
no practical way to get 100% correctness with "make" after an
arbitrary maintainer change to source files.  Instead, we strive for
correctness a high percentage of the time, in such a way that
maintainers should have a good idea of all the issues that might cause
incorrectness and how to avoid these issues.

One possible rule of thumb, for example, is the idea that
"make" runs fairly quickly and works unless you have edited
the build procedure, and in the latter case you should run
"make bootstrap" which is much safer but also much slower.
That is an easy guideline to remember, and surely we can get this
to work a high percentage of the time.  Perhaps you prefer
a different guideline, and if so we can try to get that
other guideline to work.  But the rule cannot be that
"make" always works unaided: that's not practical.



  reply	other threads:[~2011-12-03  6:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 42+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-11-30 21:48 Annoyingly cautious make rules Richard Stallman
2011-11-30 22:00 ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-01 21:54   ` Richard Stallman
2011-12-02  1:35     ` Stefan Monnier
2011-12-02 10:00     ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-01  3:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-12-01  8:50 ` Andreas Schwab
2011-12-02 12:05   ` Richard Stallman
2011-12-02 12:11     ` Andy Wingo
2011-12-02 12:13     ` Andreas Schwab
2011-12-02 14:57       ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-12-02 15:05         ` Andreas Schwab
2011-12-02 15:41           ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-12-03  9:23           ` Richard Stallman
2011-12-02 16:14         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-12-02 16:24           ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-12-02 18:24           ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-02 18:39             ` Glenn Morris
2011-12-02 20:21               ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-02 20:36             ` Stefan Monnier
2011-12-02 21:29               ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-02 23:26                 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-12-03  0:34                 ` Andreas Schwab
2011-12-03  2:52                   ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-03  3:42                     ` Stefan Monnier
2011-12-03  3:55                       ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-03  5:48                         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-12-03  6:35                           ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2011-12-03  8:49                     ` Andreas Schwab
2011-12-03 20:15                       ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-03 20:29                         ` Andreas Schwab
2011-12-03 20:42                         ` Glenn Morris
2011-12-04 15:04                           ` Richard Stallman
2011-12-04 16:55                             ` Stefan Monnier
2011-12-04 18:57                               ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-05  2:53                                 ` Glenn Morris
2011-12-03  6:45                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-12-03 20:23               ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-03  4:52             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-12-03 20:34               ` Paul Eggert
2011-12-03  9:23           ` Richard Stallman
2011-12-03  4:26         ` Stephen J. Turnbull

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=4ED9C320.8070708@cs.ucla.edu \
    --to=eggert@cs.ucla.edu \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca \
    --cc=rms@gnu.org \
    --cc=schwab@linux-m68k.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.