From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ken Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: "like other editors" [was: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete] Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:17:02 -0400 Message-ID: <4E89D1EE.1000105@mousecar.com> References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20111003093334.0bf5d988@kuru.homelinux.net> <4E89B613.9060305@mousecar.com> <20111003154119.37845657@kuru.homelinux.net> Reply-To: gebser@mousecar.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317655056 15367 80.91.229.12 (3 Oct 2011 15:17:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:17:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, emacs-delete-poll@gnu.org To: Suvayu Ali Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 03 17:17:32 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkGl-00042b-TJ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 17:17:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40238 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkGl-0002Bk-BT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:17:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44548) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkGY-000292-33 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:17:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkGU-0004U4-6j for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:17:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194]:64735) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAkGU-0004Ty-17; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:17:10 -0400 Original-Received: from dellap.mousecar.net (dsl093-011-016.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.11.16]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MGzr0-1ROVu13N3q-00E1fr; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:17:07 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20110928) In-Reply-To: <20111003154119.37845657@kuru.homelinux.net> X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:mc7gwGJ8loMBU4QUF0qbLCBvKxGFZBlzWOy1VRlk1+P j4oSdZAGDqxfNB7vVsm/KFQqyDZTaKi+RZ24xc8iE/QiWwG4re VhuKiIcF7n2H3K8oGuRuUS56xQV9JWOiPsdUVCNez7ZG7ItCHR Ww+Luc25UaADnImOBE3eizFrUeFu1qhRBCZIs9zxhTyZXAQSmS pRd9rJKf2fInT6NdvdaVmrgkXb21ruIwFi0JvnNds7isNcuR74 FFvr8wuuRuYw/4HsyWWmYEBFV7XBThGnzFweGVmuOqG43QUx0H HcZmFF9/aYenp7UexcwGj+U5ZO+JM2TjvW2pGHO2rg4kiQvlFG Fx+uvX6T/EsvgqpfTQ7A7ZnEpBIu/browDLRXoegh X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.208.4.194 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82414 Archived-At: On 10/03/2011 09:41 AM Suvayu Ali wrote: > Hi Ken, > > On Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:18:11 -0400 > ken wrote: > >> Secondly, there are places in the world where people haven't ever >> used Windows; instead, their first and only experience with computers >> is with Linux. What sense can it make to them that emacs' behavior >> is changed simply to mimic some other editor they've never seen or >> used? > > You wrongly assumed by modern editors I was talking about Windows > editors[1], No, I wasn't assuming you were talking about Word. Since you didn't say which editor you were talking about, I just picked Word as a foil. If you re-read my post, you'll see on my first reference to Word I preceded it by "e.g.", implying the same thereafter. > you can check out other FOSS editors (in fact they are > pretty good for relatively simple use) like Geany, Kate, Gedit, Nedit > (this is actually pretty old), text input windows of most file/web > browsers, many GUI email clients and so on. And most of the friends I > was trying to introduce to org-mode were *nix users already (yes there > are non-techie people using *nix, and yes they made the decision > without any "friendly help" guiding them in that direction). My same argument still applies: What's done in other editors isn't relevant here. Emacs doesn't have to do everything the same as [insert your favorite editor here]. *Again* we shouldn't try simply to follow what's fashionable. Also, I don't understand the reason for making a distinction between "techie people" and others. > > No need to start a(n) argument/flame-war here, RMS asked users' opinion > and I expressed myself. .... Agreed. It's just that you were the second person to bring up the Following Fashion argument. It seemed, then, worthwhile to consider which criteria are actually relevant to the issue. How is that 'starting a flame war'? > .... > > Footnotes: > > [1] BTW, MS Word is not an editor, its a word processor a parallel in > the FOSS world would be LibreOffice Writer. And, technically speaking, emacs is a text processor. Relevance?