From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_R=F6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Compiled files without sources???? Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:45:19 +0200 Message-ID: <4E3594AF.7050605@online.de> References: <87wrk54pzp.fsf@ginnungagap.bsc.es> <87tyf7aw9b.fsf@engster.org> <871uxgyu0u.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87vcus3slm.fsf@engster.org> <87k4b4jv8p.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <877h7444uj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87tya82mv5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87ei1bzjwg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <4E3133CE.7010101@cs.ucla.edu> <4E31F0B3.3030505@cs.ucla.edu> <87mxfw90oo.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87r558ms8j.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87zkjv33w3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87sjpn8if0.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <87sjpm7lvt.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1312134340 32647 80.91.229.12 (31 Jul 2011 17:45:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 17:45:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Tim Cross , Richard Stallman To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 31 19:45:35 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qna50-0000hO-45 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:45:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34056 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qna4z-0002RB-Jy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 13:45:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:43724) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qna4x-0002Qv-6p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 13:45:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qna4v-0005VV-Ke for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 13:45:31 -0400 Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:61463) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qna4v-0005VG-7Z; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 13:45:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.27] (brln-4db9ee9f.pool.mediaWays.net [77.185.238.159]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MSlc0-1QvNa60ypQ-00Rbwu; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:45:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 SUSE/3.1.11 Thunderbird/3.1.11 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:3Skmj9bUNPSKLanjlvYOJonX91ESMZeiMrp4VnkuHlq t3KRaQjTQR10wRfDdN3QFmCus55ArBkLBSqorPi2EqngEBdFtW neX6VGUEjcaTeKzS+fbQoQjR9Sd2s6SowJSuo7ZNETT23BHirH yoaqbUT8t8calbi5sNPaw+rVkWeX4kCXknWftpb+GVXLx6YRoE I/e52m402TWpUHtqGmM4n9GsE+Zk3RiRndgHS0wNtg= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 212.227.17.10 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:142593 Archived-At: Am 31.07.2011 15:29, schrieb Tim Cross: > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 9:03 PM, David Kastrup wrote: >> Tim Cross writes: >> >>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Thien-Thi Nguyen wrote: >>> >>>> The problem is that the differences aren't accountable, not that >>>> there are differences. To be accountable, the path from original to >>>> current must be transparent. If that path involves manual editing, a >>>> commit (+ ChangeLog) should be generated. If that path is machine >>>> manifested, the program that does the change must be distributed (+ >>>> commit + ChangeLog, of course). In the case of distribution, GPL >>>> comes into play (recursively). >>> >>> FYI, for anyone who perhaps may not recognize how important this is, >>> this issue has been reported in the latest issue of LWN. >> >> Both article and comments are quite off-color. For one thing, they >> assume that the parser generator has been Bison and the respective code >> C. That does not really make all that much of a difference with regard >> to the implications except that it might have been easier to hand-edit >> the files. >> >> Then they assume that the FSF is in violation of the GPL. Since Emacs >> is (c) FSF, the FSF can't be in violation of its own license. The >> issues are different, but still need fixing. >> >> Anyway, I find it bad taste to drag an internal discussion from the list >> into the limelight like that. Even if the original reporter would have >> gotten his facts right, the conclusions of the average reader would have >> likely been off-color. The mud-slinging is detrimental to making a >> solid and timely fix. >> >> The article in LWN is at. The >> front page at has the lead-in >> >> Emacs distributions are not GPL-compliant >> [Development] Posted Jul 29, 2011 12:10 UTC (Fri) by corbet >> >> It turns out that the Emacs 23.2 and 23.3 releases contain a number >> of parsers created with Bison, but the source for those parsers was >> not included. That has led Richard Stallman to say: "We have made a >> very bad mistake. Anyone redistributing those versions is violating >> the GPL, through no fault of his own. We need to fix those releases >> retroactively (or else delete them), and we need to do it right >> away." This state of affairs is clearly just a slip which will be >> fixed quickly, but it shows that anybody can make mistakes. >> >> I can't seem to find a good permanent link for the article that would >> include this lead-in. >> >> Anyway, even though the publication seems to me to be in bad taste and >> ill-advised, I would not want to have mailing list or archives limited >> to a closed circle. It's a risk we have to live with. >> > > Personally, I was surprised when I read the lead-in. I also thought it > was an 'internal' matter being dealt with, but thought it worth > pointing out, regardless of its accuracy. I also suspect it is really > only getting such attention because of emacs being a well known FSF > package and Richard's direct involvement. > > I guess it is a positive that the issue was one identified within the > emacs dev community and one being dealt with appropriately and quickly > once identified. It does highlights the need for care. In some ways > emacs' and other key FSF projects need to set the standards, which I > think was one of Richard's main points. > > Tim > > Hi, IMHO exists a certain danger GPL might be used against contributors and vendors of GPL'ed stuff. GPL harbors several misconceptions, starting with the famous copyleft. Might turn out as sword of damocles re-invented. Cheers, Andreas -- https://launchpad.net/python-mode https://launchpad.net/s-x-emacs-werkstatt/