From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] system-type cygwin with window-system w32 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:48:44 -0700 Message-ID: <4E2463EC.4040302@gmail.com> References: <4E2377E2.1020804@gmail.com> <4E23DA4A.1080301@gmail.com> <4E23FFB4.1040809@gmail.com> <4E240FC5.3050509@gmail.com> <83pql77d8z.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig586451A8854481671F9B6636" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1311012197 17061 80.91.229.12 (18 Jul 2011 18:03:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:03:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 18 20:03:11 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qis9v-0003ub-GS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:03:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46101 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qis9u-0007we-Ar for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:03:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:59811) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qir07-0004Qd-Fe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:49:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qir05-0002XE-Ad for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:48:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-iy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:59748) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qir01-0002Wf-7s; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:48:53 -0400 Original-Received: by iyb14 with SMTP id 14so2290433iyb.0 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:48:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type; bh=bu8BCUTv9sWQY7IteyM0g4CH00LkBSHoOmjBeqh/noQ=; b=AoQddZvcsEnCBoiQ//8Pt55iQGF1GTEGEIoXQG+C+huzGBlzga9dEylA2PSrq7HwI7 77ak2WkArDvAGmtN1IeplvH2uWTWIos96HhjJYH2N42S7/kGJaKsem08hdU6T9e7J8xB Fir5b6pap4MN+SgySeLTKnKzFJs7jIV67ohXg= Original-Received: by 10.43.50.201 with SMTP id vf9mr940313icb.322.1311007732134; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-24-18-179-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [24.18.179.193]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id vj5sm5105253icb.23.2011.07.18.09.48.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:48:51 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 In-Reply-To: <83pql77d8z.fsf@gnu.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.210.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:142126 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig586451A8854481671F9B6636 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/18/11 9:41 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I'm afraid it isn't straightforward. I suspect there's a lot of > supporting code that still assumes unibyte characters. But I'll > welcome patches in that area (if we agree to drop W9X support). I meant that we can convert to UTF-8 (or our internal multibyte encoding) until the very last moment before calling a system function; we know UTF-8 support works already, and the conversation preserves everything. >> Cygwin supports UTF-8 filenames natively. >=20 > I know that, but it isn't relevant to the native w32 build, because > that needs to use UTF-16, not UTF-8. >=20 >> But even if we don't --- why does it matter? You can create files usi= ng >> the NT native API that can't be opened using Win32 calls; it doesn't >> cause a problem in practice. Likewise, users who have strange >> filesnames might not be able to use them with all Emacs features right= >> away, but they'll be able to work with more reasonable filenames just = as >> they did before. >=20 > But switching to Unicode doesn't make sense _unless_ you want to > support "strange file names": all the non-strange file names are > already supported under the current ``ANSI'' APIs. It's when I want > to see file names with characters not from my system locale that I > need Unicode. Unicode APIs are also more modern in a sense --- new ANSI APIs aren't being created anymore. > [snip] >=20 > See above: for those, the Unicode interfaces give no advantage. >=20 >> Still, if we can't do that, then as a temporary measure, we can still >> use Unicode APIs (the 9X discussion notwithstanding), but as a tempora= ry >> measure, filter their results so that we reject filenames that can't b= e >> used with the system codepage. >=20 > But then this is just complication with no benefits, isn't it? Not necessarily --- this approach would allow us to gradually migrate to Unicode without introducing the possibility of delivering incomprehensible error messages to users. When we've updated all the relevant bits, we can just remove the filtering and have a pure Unicode Emacs. --------------enig586451A8854481671F9B6636 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk4kY/AACgkQ17c2LVA10VtMtACghaRE2UMK9O3u5XO5KP2UmEaM 5mUAoIJLvukqT6EQnIDZH+MwFCYA0L5s =SS4h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig586451A8854481671F9B6636--