From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcmVhcyBSw7ZobGVy?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Please don't refer to Emacs as "open source" Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:40:06 +0200 Message-ID: <4DF9DD86.1010301@online.de> References: <010001cc29eb$fc806cb0$f5814610$@cs.ua.edu> <87zkljcxg4.fsf@gmail.com> <877h8niao3.fsf@gmail.com> <8739jbxpjh.fsf@gmail.com> <4DF99CD0.3080108@online.de> <81fwna1dvb.fsf@gmail.com> <4DF9D370.400@canaxis.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1308233726 9569 80.91.229.12 (16 Jun 2011 14:15:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:15:26 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 16 16:15:18 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QXDLq-0001MQ-GS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:15:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59263 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXDLp-0007nz-0y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:15:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:34915) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXClt-0006Mf-Nx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:38:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXClq-0006t0-Sq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:38:09 -0400 Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.9]:49895) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXClq-0006sd-C6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:38:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.27] (brln-4dbc6889.pool.mediaWays.net [77.188.104.137]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lxru4-1PU4SX0tnw-015HRr; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:40:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 SUSE/3.1.10 Thunderbird/3.1.10 In-Reply-To: <4DF9D370.400@canaxis.org> X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:YXK2CFpBOU5/GRIAkUTy2ahHYa8hdH4OA+8tut8yXuO ZMlovMyss3HvUI9C/vx1tWSDVOKrLPLhdkF1YE2wRgsgH9cjRD l3tbPaInWTAZ64XHwjXS4OIWATA3OSGhu/ugpYy8Vpe+Ry3pCv kEMWgYpLoSn+xJRXT1B6cpJ74vLOqk6LNVUSejscofZyOW2dM2 HsSD2H34WMgld7gSQMdPJZMyV03lxbCZLGgtuETa8I= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 212.227.17.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:140551 Archived-At: Am 16.06.2011 11:57, schrieb cp@canaxis.org: > On 06/16/2011 08:36 AM, Jambunathan K wrote: >>> > When the first modern declaration of human rights showed up in french >>> > revolution of 1789 it was closely followed by guillotines. > > Ironically, when RMS comes in France to explain Free Software to French, > he says most of the time: "I can explain free software in three words. > Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité. Everything Sarkozy hates." > > I agree with him :) Meaning, never forget who you are to succeed. > Guillotines no longer exist in France, but French kept their values with > La Marseillaise. > > http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_Marseillaise Thanks pointing at that. Unfortunatly very recent politics demonstrates it's neither a joke nor some antiquity. > >>> > So I have some favor for the wording "Open Source" not with respect to >>> > a precise license politics or specific institute, but because it's not >>> > that pathetic, doesn't that have that smell. >> While we are discussing about making the words culturally netural - >> Andreas here is talking here from a French perspective - > > Andreas forgot to say that most hackers in France are talking about > Logiciel Libre (meaning Free Software), only businessmen are using the > wording of "open source" there, in the aim to sell some logiciel > privatif with Free/Libre software, plus some windows users who do not > know the meaning. The fact is that THIS thread is US-centric, and I > support RMS on his feedback. So do I. Even when contradicting :-) Finally the truth is a process. What about a hypothetical, in my eyes more measured response: "Please note: Emacs focus in not to be just open source, but rather free/libre software. We have developed it for freedom's sake, and we want people to know this." As for the following passage it makes me headache in various respects. "Open source" doesn't contrast with GPL practical aspects at all IMHO. The GPL is of great practicability, also from a pure technical aspect. (Which again doesn't exclude questioning some stipulations...) People may well choose GPL for very practical reasons. As for the "ethical values" --otherwise only stressed in churches that often-- I'd prefer it not that outspoken, rather realising it, which in so far is done by Emacs developers. Cheers, Andreas > > Just my two cents :-) >