From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David De La Harpe Golden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as a desktop environment Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:14:42 +0100 Message-ID: <4DE11F72.1060008@harpegolden.net> References: <87aaebbndz.fsf@lifelogs.com> <09EEF7C6-A715-412D-ABE7-022681CD2E85@raeburn.org> <868vtufuo0.fsf@gmail.com> <19933.59636.382811.985972@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <878vtsap3z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87hb8fznwi.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87vcwv15qw.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <8739jzp0js.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1306599296 15129 80.91.229.12 (28 May 2011 16:14:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:14:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Ulrich Mueller , Evans Winner , Thien-Thi Nguyen , Ken Raeburn , "Stephen J. Turnbull" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nix Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 28 18:14:51 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QQMA6-00026m-IA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 May 2011 18:14:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36643 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QQMA6-0001jE-3R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 May 2011 12:14:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:46540) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QQMA3-0001j8-3C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 May 2011 12:14:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QQMA1-0000FY-Sq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 May 2011 12:14:47 -0400 Original-Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]:48568) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QQMA1-0000FT-L6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 May 2011 12:14:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [87.198.54.204] (87-198-54-204.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.54.204]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E30B1683AB; Sat, 28 May 2011 17:14:43 +0100 (IST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110510 Icedove/3.1.10 In-Reply-To: <8739jzp0js.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 65.99.215.13 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:139839 Archived-At: On 28/05/11 11:44, Nix wrote: > It's using higher-level toolkits. Sortof. gtk+ emacs is a actually a mix of toolkit and direct xlib calls, for a variety of reasons, some good, some just historical. A "pure gtk+" (or at least "pure gtk+ and probably cairo and stuff") emacs would be a possibility, but AFAIK a currently hypothetical one, and a lot of work for dubious return (especially since longstanding gtk+ rather than emacs bugs like the famous "closing display? hey, let's kill everything" and "hey, don't tell us how scrollbars work" presumably wouldn't go away). AFAIUI the main thing really stalling wholesale movement to xcb and retirement of xlib in general is the absence of an xlib-free replacement for GLX. Right now, if an x11 app/toolkit/canvas ever wants to use accelerated opengl rendering (and "everyone" wants those fancy 3d effects these days...), it /must/ link to xlib (even if xlib itself is sitting on top of xcb) - see writeup here: http://xcb.freedesktop.org/opengl/ (note as the link explains xcb-glx is not sufficient, it's only part of the puzzle). Work on removing the xlib dependency for opengl apps seems to proceed in fits and starts, typically coincidental with GSoC projects...