From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: About `autoload-do-load' Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 09:50:06 -0800 Message-ID: <4DC78090317045188371DFA72A42123F@us.oracle.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1357667426 6255 80.91.229.3 (8 Jan 2013 17:50:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 17:50:26 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Barry Margolin'" , Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 08 18:50:42 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TsdJt-0007Zd-HD for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 18:50:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38206 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TsdJd-0002Y0-Vc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:50:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47834) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TsdJX-0002Xn-Vw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:50:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TsdJW-0001o6-V5 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:50:15 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:47565) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TsdJW-0001ny-O7 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:50:14 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r08HoCb6024356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 Jan 2013 17:50:13 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r08HoBwl016523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 8 Jan 2013 17:50:12 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r08HoBVk000686; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 11:50:11 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.152) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:50:11 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac3txc7zsDLXeXrnRISh+/PGIm2/owAAB+aA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:88531 Archived-At: > > > Yes, function value and function cell are equivalent in > > > this context. > > > > Not quite: a "cell" is a place somewhere in memory that can contain > > a value. So the "function cell" of a symbol *holds* (as opposed to > > "is") a "function value". > > But the way the phrase was being used in the documentation in > question doesn't distinguish these two concepts. Not too surprising. Stefan is of course right that the location and its contents are not the same thing. But consider "variable". A variable is a named location as well. And a variable is not the same thing as its value. But we sometimes write "variable `foo'" when we really mean "the value of variable `foo'". Hopefully we do so only in contexts where the meaning of that shorthand is clear. It's good to point out the difference. It's also good for the doc to be clear about which is meant, in any context where there could be confusion and where the confusion would matter. If you find a doc passage that is unclear in this regard, please submit a bug report. The term "function value" has its own problems, specific to the fact that a function application returns a value. Someone might think that that is what is meant by the term. It is probably better to speak specifically of the "value of the function cell", rather than to use the term "function value". But typically, the context where we might talk about "function value" would leave no doubt about whether what is meant has anything to do with the value of a function application. And on the other hand, "function value" speaks to the fact that in Lisp a function is itself a value, i.e., more or less a first-class object. In this sense the value of the function cell is a stand-in for the denoted functional value.