From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ken Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: need obsolete arg in (read-from-minibuffer ...) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:22:04 -0400 Message-ID: <4D84134C.9010402@mousecar.com> References: <4D83BF4A.1030707@mousecar.com> <57C62106C2FC4A8DABE33A73A9A35201@us.oracle.com> <4D83D8B9.7070608@mousecar.com> Reply-To: gebser@mousecar.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1300501361 4681 80.91.229.12 (19 Mar 2011 02:22:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 02:22:41 +0000 (UTC) To: Drew Adams , GNU Emacs List Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 19 03:22:35 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0loI-0005CL-Cy for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:22:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52057 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q0loH-0006yd-Ln for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:22:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=52109 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q0lnv-0006yY-IR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:22:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0lnu-0006Oz-Cx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:22:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194]:53779) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0lnu-0006Ov-8c for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:22:10 -0400 Original-Received: from dellap.mousecar.net (dsl093-011-016.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.11.16]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LiTe0-1PSp5m1Fgi-00cXNS; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:22:08 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20101213) In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 OpenPGP: id=5AD091E7 X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:Y2Ddt/7hKCBhNkFoeWPH4QnTosqZ8dsQeoRnQgmaewT e0U9HPJIIfbuel5Ogybq0BEOlxgkgtivjNrsHiqlGyb0+jpLX5 wLq+1DCvZFzj0KYd331epG03mC4XpbeZFBb2t/PEIwAgHQlmc/ 17WeCVEjdvQiWgT0o083H4SGTn+xTfx6Pmu7jEZcxXjVhYJAix 9dSl2xARFUZEXKNkAY+hgOsV8WFVjL8TipE7zcMrTE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.208.4.194 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:80260 Archived-At: On 03/18/2011 07:03 PM Drew Adams wrote: >>> What do you mean by "work"? And what do you mean "without" >>> the obsolete arg? >> If I change the 2nd arg from "def-val" to "nil", then def-val >> isn't displayed in the minibuffer for editing by the user. >> However, the docs say that this arg is obsolete. >> I take this to mean that it should be left as "nil". > > Correct. By "obsolete" the docs mean that that the Emacs developers think you > should leave it as nil (i.e., not use the INITIAL-CONTENTS argument), and use > only the DEFAULT-VALUE argument. > > They think that the only useful use cases make no use of INITIAL-CONTENTS. But > see the doc string wrt the HIST arg, where they allow for an exception. > > However, if you understand the difference between DEFAULT-VALUE and > INITIAL-CONTENTS, and _you prefer_ the behavior of INITIAL-CONTENTS for some > reason in some particular context, then use it. Personally, I do not consider > INITIAL-CONTENTS obsolete, FWIW. > > Remember that you can pull the DEFAULT-VALUE into the minibuffer using `M-n'. > So the difference typically comes down to which you find more convenient: having > a value in the minibuffer initially (and having to get rid of it if you really > want something else instead) or pulling a value into the minibuffer when you > need it, using `M-n'. > > If the default/initial value is used most of the time, then you might find it > more convenient to have the minibuffer prefilled with it. If it is not used > most of the time then you might find it more convenient not to have to clear it > out of the minibuffer and type another value. And this relative convenience > might change, depending on the command and the context. > > .... Really? This is why that 2nd arg was declared obsolete!? That's rather goofy. I thought there was some technical reason for it-- something to do with code. Oh well.... Thanks for the answer.