From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "K. Richard Pixley" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#7771: 23.1; can't turn off font-lock-mode globally Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:30:48 -0800 Message-ID: <4D224008.3080503@noir.com> References: <4D20CF4D.9010403@noir.com> <4D21180B.3050505@noir.com> <4D221813.9000600@noir.com> <83d3odojc8.fsf@gnu.org> <4D223199.2070307@noir.com> <83aajhoh6l.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1294091819 3970 80.91.229.12 (3 Jan 2011 21:56:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 21:56:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 03 22:56:55 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZsOc-0005e4-74 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 22:56:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39756 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PZsOb-0005ML-OC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:56:53 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57848 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PZsLy-0003tW-C7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:54:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZsLw-00067k-UI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:54:10 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:36085) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZsLw-00067f-Oe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:54:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZrso-00060l-PV; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:24:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "K. Richard Pixley" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7771 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.129408982923082 (code B ref -1); Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:24:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2011 21:23:49 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZrsb-00060F-3H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:23:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZrsZ-000601-7h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:23:47 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZrzR-0001dz-HJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:30:54 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:50213) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZrzR-0001dv-F2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:30:53 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59690 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PZrzQ-00065X-6w for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:30:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZrzN-0001cu-Uu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:30:52 -0500 Original-Received: from m209-5.dsl.rawbw.com ([198.144.209.5]:58259 helo=sendai.noir.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZrzN-0001cJ-OY; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:30:49 -0500 Original-Received: from ono.noir.com (ono.noir.com [192.168.1.11]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sendai.noir.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61196E0835; Mon, 3 Jan 2011 13:30:48 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:24:02 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:43066 Archived-At: On 20110103 13:02, Lennart Borgman wrote: > On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Btw, do you dislike _all_ colored text in Emacs, or only font-lock? >> There are faces Emacs uses that are not related to font-lock at all, >> like the "buttons" in *Help* buffers, the minibuffer prompts, the >> special face for the part of file-name you type in the minibuffer that >> will be ignored because it is before the "//", etc. Then there are >> colors not related to text, e.g. the fringes. Do you want a feature >> to turn all of those off, or just the font-lock faces? >> Regarding my proposal: Eli, your question is good, just adding a >> point. I would expect it to be only face colors that are the problem, >> but I am not sure. Richard? For me, it's gratuitous use of color, (the effect is not unlike a mix of sTudLy CAps with i VIs Ch cTe ), and non-contrasting colors, (of which there are more for some people than others). The buttons I've seen in the last two days had no color difference from the rest of the text in the popup. The minibuffer prompts, as I recall, appear to be dimmed, not colored, (although that may just be clever use of color), and largely remove bits of no interest anyway. (Didn't the minibuffer used to clear on "//" rather than even showing the previous text?). I have no complaint or problem with dimmed or bolded. Dimmed certainly could become illegible if it were sufficiently dim, but it seems to be fine in most cases. Unlike, say, dim yellow text on off white background which is essentially invisible. Or red on green background or yellow on blue, (or vice verse), which are completely invisible. Most programmers aren't color experts. They just slap up what seem like contrasting colors to them without much thought to subjective experience, (color blindness, cognitive variance, environmental factors like X11 themeing), color set themeing, look-and-feel coordination, pleasing presentation, etc. Thunderbird uses color and I find their use of color constructive. It's low/no contrast color and "bad" use of color to which I object, (and 95% of color uses are "bad", ime). I want the "bad" color to go away. And that seems to be primarily font-lock uses. --rich ps, for those who don't get it yet, my first sentence above was intended to mimic low/no contrast "studly caps with invisible characters".