Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Raffaele Ricciardi]

Sueroski wrote:
>  Hello everyone.
> In first I have one info for you. Please send copy of your messanges to 
> my email (cuz I'm not on this mailing list and I want to have aswer).
> 
> And the main problem. I started learning Emacs and I very like this 
> editor by now... it have great shortcuts - I can do everything without 
> mouse and it may make in future my programming faster (when I'll mainly 
> switched to Emacs... now I don't know about it so much)
> And I'm flustrated about one think... so, I'm programmer (mainly Python 
> and PHP) and actually all editors gives me automatic adding tab... I 
> haven't this on Emacs and I don't know how to do it. I must on every 
> line press TAB and it's not good ;[
> So... what I must change to have auto tabs in Emacs? I searched most of 
> sites but everything telling how to select type of tabs, leight of tabs 
> etc.
> 
> If you don't know what I mean under term "auto tab" then watch:
> for example:
> I'm writing on C my code:
> 
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>    }
> 
> And I wanna add something to main. I push Enter and write my code. In 
> Emacs I get this:
> 
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>    printf("Hello World");
>    }
> 
> And I wanna get by default without pressing TAB, get this:
> 
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>         printf("Hello World");
>    }
> 
> I know it's real but I don't know how to configure it (why Emacs don't 
> have this by default? if I edit *.c file it's probably know to I write C 
> code and I wanna tabs... ).
> 
> Greetings and sorry for wasting time
> 
> PS I think my English is not really bad but I can make few mistakes (I'm 
> really young by now and I'm not native ;[) then sorry for my English
> 

Forget about using Emacs for programming.  Emacs is not an IDE.

Regarding your issue, read here: 
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AutoIndentation

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[egarrulo]

Sueroski wrote:
>  Hello everyone.
> In first I have one info for you. Please send copy of your messanges to 
> my email (cuz I'm not on this mailing list and I want to have aswer).
> 
> And the main problem. I started learning Emacs and I very like this 
> editor by now... it have great shortcuts - I can do everything without 
> mouse and it may make in future my programming faster (when I'll mainly 
> switched to Emacs... now I don't know about it so much)
> And I'm flustrated about one think... so, I'm programmer (mainly Python 
> and PHP) and actually all editors gives me automatic adding tab... I 
> haven't this on Emacs and I don't know how to do it. I must on every 
> line press TAB and it's not good ;[
> So... what I must change to have auto tabs in Emacs? I searched most of 
> sites but everything telling how to select type of tabs, leight of tabs 
> etc.
> 
> If you don't know what I mean under term "auto tab" then watch:
> for example:
> I'm writing on C my code:
> 
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>    }
> 
> And I wanna add something to main. I push Enter and write my code. In 
> Emacs I get this:
> 
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>    printf("Hello World");
>    }
> 
> And I wanna get by default without pressing TAB, get this:
> 
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>         printf("Hello World");
>    }
> 
> I know it's real but I don't know how to configure it (why Emacs don't 
> have this by default? if I edit *.c file it's probably know to I write C 
> code and I wanna tabs... ).
> 
> Greetings and sorry for wasting time
> 
> PS I think my English is not really bad but I can make few mistakes (I'm 
> really young by now and I'm not native ;[) then sorry for my English
> 

Forget about using Emacs for programming.  Emacs is not an IDE.

Regarding your issue, read here: 
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AutoIndentation

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[suvayu ali]

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:15 PM, egarrulo <egarrulo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Forget about using Emacs for programming.  Emacs is not an IDE.

That is a strange comment. Does one always need an IDE for
programming? Although at times it is very useful, I often find it
intrusive. Also have you checked out the CEDET library for Emacs? I
use it when I am working within a framework.

As for the OP, I find putting the terminating ";" in C/C++ works best
for me while in source code and "C-j" (i.e. press and hold Ctrl then
press j) when I am inside multiline comments.

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[egarrulo]

suvayu ali wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:15 PM, egarrulo <egarrulo@gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Forget about using Emacs for programming.  Emacs is not an IDE.
>>     
>
> That is a strange comment. Does one always need an IDE for
> programming? Although at times it is very useful, I often find it
> intrusive.
You'd better always use a an IDE for programming, albeit for easier 
programs you .  Do not discard IDEs because you have experienced using 
bloated ones  A nicely designed IDE will not get in your way.  It will 
scale nicely from one-source-file programs to multi-project 
applications.  Indeed, if I'm not mistaken, Emacs out-of-the-box 
supports compiling and running one-source-file programs.  What it lacks 
is going beyond that (out-of-the-box).
> Also have you checked out the CEDET library for Emacs? I
> use it when I am working within a framework.
>   
CEDET has been a recent addition to Emacs.  I tried it in the past, but 
I found it difficult to configure and understand.  Maybe things have 
changed in the meantime, or I wasn't an experienced-enough Emacser at 
the time.  I'll give it a try again, since you have recommended it.

I've just stumbled upon this project: http://home.gna.org/emacs-ide/

Maybe it is what I was saying Emacs lacks.

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Mario Lassnig]

On 12/6/10 11:24 AM, Miles Bader wrote:
> I'm confused; are you implying that CEDET's project-management is
> somehow hard to use or figure out?  Have you used it?

I've been trying to figure out the following workflow with CEDET,
but ultimately I had to give up, due to me not having days to figure
it out... The workflow is as follows:

I have a directory structure like so:

project/
    /src/
        /subdir1/
                 a.cpp
                 a.h
        /subdir1/
                 b.cpp
                 b.h
        main.cpp
    /build/
           ...
    /docs/
          ...
    /externals/
               externalA/
                         includes
               externalB/
                         includes
    Makefile



Now, the only thing I want is that when I open a file in the src/
directories, to have emacs know about the includes from the
externals and the other src directories, and if i save any
file to execute the makefile from the top directory.

"How hard can that be?" I thought... emacs only needs to know about
the includes directory to get the cedet fun stuff enabled, and
a save-hook for the makefile. Figures, I've been completely unable
to even parse the documentation to find out where to start on how
to configure this.

Do I have to place a special configuration file in the project main?
Do I have to place some configuration lines in a file?
Do I have to set something in my .emacs?

And if yes on any of this, how?

In fact, I think if someone knows how to do this very very very simple
thing of a workflow, and makes a "I'm a dummy" tutorial for this,
(including on how to enable cedet in .emacs!) then I guess thousands
of developers would be very very very happy.

Peace out :)

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Mario Lassnig]

On 12/6/10 12:01 PM, Elena wrote:
>
> Have you read the excellent Alex Ott's tutorial?
> http://alexott.net/en/writings/emacs-devenv/EmacsCedet.html
>
> This section is about headers: http://alexott.net/en/writings/emacs-devenv/EmacsCedet.html#sec7
> I think the best way to automate this is by having some tool - CScope
> maybe - tell you what headers are included by your sources, and then
> passing such headers to semantic (instead of adding them by hand).

This is indeed very helpful, thanks!

>
> If you are willing to give up CEDET, you make have a look at this
> project: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Emacs-IDE (Linux only)
>

Let's see if I can get it working on OSX.

Cheers!

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Richard Riley]

Mario Lassnig <mario@lassnig.net> writes:

> On 12/6/10 11:24 AM, Miles Bader wrote:
>> I'm confused; are you implying that CEDET's project-management is
>> somehow hard to use or figure out?  Have you used it?
>
> I've been trying to figure out the following workflow with CEDET,
> but ultimately I had to give up, due to me not having days to figure
> it out... The workflow is as follows:

I must admit to giving up with cedet completely. It caused my emacs to
randomly freeze for periods at a time, completion was a hit and miss
affair and the setup in Alex's once excellent article is out of
date. Combine that with the setup for the downloadable one being
different from the version shipped now with emacs 23.2 and you have a
recipe for confusion and frustration. A shame and I will certainly
revisit it one day as clearly there is a lot of potential.

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Richard Riley]

Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

> Elena <egarrulo@gmail.com> writes:
>> Nowadays, every code monkey using an IDE will draw circles
>> around you while you fight to develop software by using Emacs.
>
> This seems unlikely.  There are certainly situations where typical IDE
> features are useful, but I've not observed any real difference in
> productivity between those who use them and those who don't (we've got
> both types here).  The difference seems largely on the level of "emacs
> vs vi":  people are most productive using tools and processes they're
> used to; the actual details are less important.
>
> -Miles

Complex third party code libraries being common place things like
context help, parameter expansion, code completion and at a click
example code are pretty much a must have. Having these things is a huge
boost for many people. It would be a pretty hardened developer who could
program Java, for example, in emacs having experience the helper
facilities in Eclipse (which is a monster it has to be said ;)).

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Richard Riley]

Elena <egarrulo@gmail.com> writes:

> On Dec 6, 4:31 pm, Richard Riley <rile...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Stefan Monnier <monn...@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>> >> Programming is heavily concerned by drudge tasks, unless someone has
>> >> come up with ways to automate them.
>>
>> > Your world of programming then is very different from mine.
>>
>> > I've only worked on Free Software projects (some of them linked to
>> > academic research, others not), so maybe I'm biased or blind, but really
>> > if the amount of "drudge tasks" is so high, it would seem to me that you
>> > probably have a real problem elsewhere which would be better solved by
>> > eliminating those tasks completely rather then by automating them
>> > via IDEs.
>>
>> >         Stefan
>>
>> The features in IDEs are generally there for a reason. So clearly people
>> do need them. Things like completions, context help, project dependency
>> handling, task management etc are all samples of what are "better at
>> hand" inside the main coding environment. Emacs does a lot well, but
>> things like completion, code navigation, context help etc it is
>> poor. That said it makes up for it in otherways e.g org-mode is a super
>> development aid.
>
> What I think those who dismiss IDEs fail to realize is that IDEs are
> just frameworks for developing applications; these frameworks have
> been laid out by more experienced programmers after a lot of
> experience on big projects.  The editor embedded in Emacs is a
> framework too: a framework for text editing.  Even if you don't go out
> of your way to customize Emacs, you can use vanilla Emacs' editing
> framework and be sure that it has been laid down by programmers after
> decades of experience editing texts of all kinds.  Saying that you
> should craft your own IDE on Emacs from scratch is akin to say that
> you should craft your own editing environment from scratch.

A lot of people spend a lot of time configuring emacs to BE an IDE. And
it could be a best of breed one. There are enough initiatives out
there. But each time you use anew language you often need to start from
scratch again - I had hoped cedet might address that to a degree and it
still might. Certainly tags are certainly not good enough these days
when you compare the features of VS or Eclipse. One of the most commonly
asked questions on #emacs is "how do I get completion" working for
example. It gets more complicated when you start looking at mixed mode
programming and bring nxhtml into the equation. The lines between things
like auto-complete, hippy expand and cedets OWN completion UIs is often
a hurdle for many : this is the nature of the beast - people keep
reinventing their own versions of things rather than coming to a
concensus on using one in order to make it easier for the end user. That
said this same choice leads to improvements in many things. But as a
programming editor I suspect its losing ground more and more - certainly
where it comes to python, java and mixed mode programming
(php/html/etc) and it strikes me that fewer and fewer people are using
gud/gdb despite it being a very powerful solution.

No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Sueroski]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1738 bytes --]

  Hello everyone.
In first I have one info for you. Please send copy of your messanges to 
my email (cuz I'm not on this mailing list and I want to have aswer).

And the main problem. I started learning Emacs and I very like this 
editor by now... it have great shortcuts - I can do everything without 
mouse and it may make in future my programming faster (when I'll mainly 
switched to Emacs... now I don't know about it so much)
And I'm flustrated about one think... so, I'm programmer (mainly Python 
and PHP) and actually all editors gives me automatic adding tab... I 
haven't this on Emacs and I don't know how to do it. I must on every 
line press TAB and it's not good ;[
So... what I must change to have auto tabs in Emacs? I searched most of 
sites but everything telling how to select type of tabs, leight of tabs 
etc.

If you don't know what I mean under term "auto tab" then watch:
for example:
I'm writing on C my code:

    #include "stdio.h"
    int main(){
    }

And I wanna add something to main. I push Enter and write my code. In 
Emacs I get this:

    #include "stdio.h"
    int main(){
    printf("Hello World");
    }

And I wanna get by default without pressing TAB, get this:

    #include "stdio.h"
    int main(){
         printf("Hello World");
    }

I know it's real but I don't know how to configure it (why Emacs don't 
have this by default? if I edit *.c file it's probably know to I write C 
code and I wanna tabs... ).

Greetings and sorry for wasting time

PS I think my English is not really bad but I can make few mistakes (I'm 
really young by now and I'm not native ;[) then sorry for my English

-- 
  ,= ,-_-. =.	Sueroski
((_/)o o(\_))	Free Software User
  `-'(. .)`-'
      \_/	www.gnu.org


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Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[PJ Weisberg]

> I'm writing on C my code:
>
> #include "stdio.h"
> int main(){
> }
>
> And I wanna add something to main. I push Enter and write my code. In Emacs I get this:
>
> #include "stdio.h"
> int main(){
> printf("Hello World");
> }

Actually you don't, because emacs by default indents the line when you
press ';'. ;-)

There might be a better way to do it, but you can accomplish what you
describe by putting this in your .emacs file:

(defadvice newline (after always-auto-indent)
  (indent-according-to-mode))
(ad-activate 'newline)

I'm personally at the point where I'm sometimes surprised when I
unconsciously press TAB in another editor and it inserts some
whitespace at the cursor instead of fixing my indentation.  If you've
really got a love for having the editor take care of your whitespace,
try this:

(c-toggle-auto-newline 1)
(c-toggle-hungry-state 1)

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Steve B]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2018 bytes --]

C-j is your friend 


On Dec 1, 2010, at 4:47, Sueroski <sueroski@interia.pl> wrote:

> Hello everyone. 
> In first I have one info for you. Please send copy of your messanges to my email (cuz I'm not on this mailing list and I want to have     aswer). 
> 
> And the main problem. I started learning Emacs and I very like this editor by now... it have great shortcuts - I can do everything without mouse and it may make in future my programming faster (when I'll mainly switched to Emacs... now I don't know about it so much)
> And I'm flustrated about one think... so, I'm programmer (mainly Python and PHP) and actually all editors gives me automatic adding tab... I haven't this on Emacs and I don't know how to do it. I must on every line press TAB and it's not good ;[
> So... what I must change to have auto tabs in Emacs? I searched most of sites but everything telling how to select type of tabs, leight of tabs etc. 
> 
> If you don't know what I mean under term "auto tab" then watch: 
> for example: 
> I'm writing on C my code: 
> #include "stdio.h"
> int main(){
> }
> And I wanna add something to main. I push Enter and write my code. In Emacs I get this: 
> #include "stdio.h"
> int main(){
> printf("Hello World");
> }
> And I wanna get by default without pressing TAB, get this: 
> #include "stdio.h"
> int main(){
>     printf("Hello World");
> }
> I know it's real but I don't know how to configure it (why Emacs don't have this by default? if I edit *.c file it's probably know to I write C code and I wanna tabs... ). 
> 
> Greetings and sorry for wasting time
> 
> PS I think my English is not really bad but I can make few mistakes (I'm really young by now and I'm not native ;[) then sorry for my English
> -- 
>  ,= ,-_-. =.	Sueroski
> ((_/)o o(\_))	Free Software User
>  `-'(. .)`-'
>      \_/	www.gnu.org
> ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Plotki codziennie w Twoim telefonie! 
> Sprawdz >> http://linkint.pl/f286d

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Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Bob Proulx]

Sueroski wrote:
> And I'm flustrated about one think... so, I'm programmer (mainly
> Python and PHP) and actually all editors gives me automatic adding
> tab... I haven't this on Emacs and I don't know how to do it. I must
> on every line press TAB and it's not good ;[
> So... what I must change to have auto tabs in Emacs? I searched most
> of sites but everything telling how to select type of tabs, leight
> of tabs etc.

I think the default expectation is that instead of pressing Enter
(also known as C-m the carriage return character) that if you press
C-j you will get what you want.  The C-j (the newline character) is by
default bound to newline-and-indent.  Try using C-j instead of Enter
and see if that does what you want.

You can change your keymap so that Enter (C-m) also calls
newline-and-indent just like C-J and automatically indents the next
line for you.  Set up a hook for the modes you care about and change
the keymap.

(add-hook 'c-mode-hook
	    '(lambda ()
	         (define-key c-mode-map "\C-m" 'newline-and-indent)))

Change the above as appropriate for the other modes you wish to use.

I used to always map C-m to newline-and-indent.  But more recently
have been using random unconfigured machines and don't get my normal
customizations.  I have therefore trained myself to use C-j now
instead since that is a default behavior and doesn't need
configuration.

Bob

Re: No automatic tabs in Emacs?

[Sergei Organov]

Sueroski <sueroski@interia.pl> writes:

[...]

> If you don't know what I mean under term "auto tab" then watch:
> for example:
> I'm writing on C my code:
>
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>    }
>
> And I wanna add something to main. I push Enter and write my code. In
> Emacs I get this:
>
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>    printf("Hello World");
>    }
>
> And I wanna get by default without pressing TAB, get this:
>
>    #include "stdio.h"
>    int main(){
>         printf("Hello World");
>    }

Add 

(define-key global-map (kbd "RET") 'newline-and-indent)

to you .emacs, and restart emacs.

-- Sergei.