* Guile vs ELisp
@ 2010-11-03 23:11 Dani Moncayo
2010-11-04 15:38 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2010-11-04 16:32 ` Stefan Husmann
0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dani Moncayo @ 2010-11-03 23:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
Hi there,
I'm a beginner in Elisp, and have a question (just for curiosity):
Go to the Emacs Lips Manual (edition 3.0 / Emacs 24.0.50), section
"1.2 Lisp History". The last paragraph reads like this:
> Emacs Lisp is not at all influenced by Scheme; but the GNU project
> has an implementation of Scheme, called Guile. We use Guile in all new
> GNU software that calls for extensibility.
...so my question is: If GNU Emacs was to be started from scratch
today, would Guile be better than ELips as extensibility language?
Thanks in advance. Dani.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Guile vs ELisp 2010-11-03 23:11 Guile vs ELisp Dani Moncayo @ 2010-11-04 15:38 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2010-11-04 16:17 ` Tassilo Horn 2010-11-09 14:45 ` Dani Moncayo 2010-11-04 16:32 ` Stefan Husmann 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2010-11-04 15:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dani Moncayo; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs () Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com> () Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:11:28 +0100 If GNU Emacs was to be started from scratch today, would Guile be better than ELips as extensibility language? That is a good question! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Guile vs ELisp 2010-11-04 15:38 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2010-11-04 16:17 ` Tassilo Horn 2010-11-09 14:45 ` Dani Moncayo 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Tassilo Horn @ 2010-11-04 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org> writes: > () Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com> > () Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:11:28 +0100 > > If GNU Emacs was to be started from scratch > today, would Guile be better than ELips as > extensibility language? > > That is a good question! There was some talk on emacs-devel about implementing elisp in Guile, so that elisp runs in the Guile VM and uses its garbage collection, its FFI and all other nice things. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-04/msg00665.html Bye, Tassilo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Guile vs ELisp 2010-11-04 15:38 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2010-11-04 16:17 ` Tassilo Horn @ 2010-11-09 14:45 ` Dani Moncayo 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Dani Moncayo @ 2010-11-09 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thien-Thi Nguyen; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 119 bytes --] So it seems that Scheme is not used in "all new GNU Software that calls for extensibility"... Thank you for replying. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 147 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Guile vs ELisp 2010-11-03 23:11 Guile vs ELisp Dani Moncayo 2010-11-04 15:38 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2010-11-04 16:32 ` Stefan Husmann 2010-11-04 19:59 ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Stefan Husmann @ 2010-11-04 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Am 04.11.2010 00:11, schrieb Dani Moncayo: > Hi there, > > I'm a beginner in Elisp, and have a question (just for curiosity): > > Go to the Emacs Lips Manual (edition 3.0 / Emacs 24.0.50), section > "1.2 Lisp History". The last paragraph reads like this: > >> Emacs Lisp is not at all influenced by Scheme; but the GNU project >> has an implementation of Scheme, called Guile. We use Guile in all new >> GNU software that calls for extensibility. > > ...so my question is: If GNU Emacs was to be started from scratch > today, would Guile be better than ELips as extensibility language? > > Thanks in advance. Dani. > > I do not know a project that actually uses guile. Even GNU projects do not do so. For example The Gimp uses Script-FU, a language derived from Tiny-Scheme. The window manager sawfish uses rep, another schemish language. Regards Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Guile vs ELisp 2010-11-04 16:32 ` Stefan Husmann @ 2010-11-04 19:59 ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Jose A. Ortega Ruiz @ 2010-11-04 19:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Thu, Nov 04 2010, Stefan Husmann wrote: [...] > I do not know a project that actually uses guile. Even GNU > projects do not do so. For example The Gimp uses Script-FU, a language > derived from Tiny-Scheme. The window manager sawfish uses rep, another > schemish language. GNUCash, LilyPond, Snd, TeXMacs, MDK and mailtools come to mind. jao -- Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little. -Edmund Burke, statesman and writer (1729-1797) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <mailman.4.1288834774.2711.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>]
* Re: Guile vs ELisp [not found] <mailman.4.1288834774.2711.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2010-11-04 1:52 ` Jason Earl 2010-11-04 10:38 ` Richard Riley 2010-11-04 7:10 ` Tim X [not found] ` <de03fb13-8efb-495c-9112-36bf1abd1cc4@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Jason Earl @ 2010-11-04 1:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Wed, Nov 03 2010, Dani Moncayo wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm a beginner in Elisp, and have a question (just for curiosity): > > Go to the Emacs Lips Manual (edition 3.0 / Emacs 24.0.50), section > "1.2 Lisp History". The last paragraph reads like this: > >> Emacs Lisp is not at all influenced by Scheme; but the GNU project >> has an implementation of Scheme, called Guile. We use Guile in all new >> GNU software that calls for extensibility. > > ...so my question is: If GNU Emacs was to be started from scratch > today, would Guile be better than ELips as extensibility language? > > Thanks in advance. Dani. There has been at least one attempt at a Guile-based Emacs (google Guile Emacs), and fairly recently Andy Wingo posted this message to emacs-devel. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-04/msg00665.html I think that it is at least somewhat likely that a near-future Emacs might run Guile.[1] Jason Footnotes: [1] By near-future, I mean in the next 50 or so years, perhaps much sooner. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Guile vs ELisp 2010-11-04 1:52 ` Jason Earl @ 2010-11-04 10:38 ` Richard Riley 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Richard Riley @ 2010-11-04 10:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Jason Earl <jearl@notengoamigos.org> writes: > On Wed, Nov 03 2010, Dani Moncayo wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> I'm a beginner in Elisp, and have a question (just for curiosity): >> >> Go to the Emacs Lips Manual (edition 3.0 / Emacs 24.0.50), section >> "1.2 Lisp History". The last paragraph reads like this: >> >>> Emacs Lisp is not at all influenced by Scheme; but the GNU project >>> has an implementation of Scheme, called Guile. We use Guile in all new >>> GNU software that calls for extensibility. >> >> ...so my question is: If GNU Emacs was to be started from scratch >> today, would Guile be better than ELips as extensibility language? >> >> Thanks in advance. Dani. > > There has been at least one attempt at a Guile-based Emacs (google Guile > Emacs), and fairly recently Andy Wingo posted this message to > emacs-devel. > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-04/msg00665.html > > I think that it is at least somewhat likely that a near-future Emacs > might run Guile.[1] > > Jason > > Footnotes: > [1] By near-future, I mean in the next 50 or so years, > perhaps much sooner. > So Guile based with it being able to use existing eLisp? Sounds too good to be true.. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Guile vs ELisp [not found] <mailman.4.1288834774.2711.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2010-11-04 1:52 ` Jason Earl @ 2010-11-04 7:10 ` Tim X [not found] ` <de03fb13-8efb-495c-9112-36bf1abd1cc4@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Tim X @ 2010-11-04 7:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com> writes: > Hi there, > > I'm a beginner in Elisp, and have a question (just for curiosity): > > Go to the Emacs Lips Manual (edition 3.0 / Emacs 24.0.50), section > "1.2 Lisp History". The last paragraph reads like this: > >> Emacs Lisp is not at all influenced by Scheme; but the GNU project >> has an implementation of Scheme, called Guile. We use Guile in all new >> GNU software that calls for extensibility. > > ...so my question is: If GNU Emacs was to be started from scratch > today, would Guile be better than ELips as extensibility language? > In short, yes, guile would probably be a better extension language than elisp, which has some real limitations. There has been a lot of discussion about this over the years. In general, most acccept that guile would be better, but the issue is all the legacy elisp code that would be lost and the amount of work that would need to be done to get the same level of functionality we already have. While we may see an emacs like editor with guile as the extension language at some point in the future, though I doubt it, I suspect it will be a totally new beastie. Imagine an emacs that is multi-threaded, has an extension language with namespaces, closures, etc and can start without any of the old 'baggage' and learns from the wealth of experience gained over the past 40 years. Could be a truely wonderful thing. At the same time, consider all the effort and work that has gone into the fine editor we now have and the amount of work it would take to get the same functionality - a huge task. Then combine that with the wealth of alternatives and the fact I think most people are now use to using many different programs. There is an argument that would suggest we are better off with distinct programs that all do one thing, but do it really well rather than one large program that tries to do everything. If you use emacs just as an editor, what level of power do you really need in an extension language. While elisp may have some real limitaitons, most of these don't greatly impact on things you want to do with it that are diretly relevant to an editor. Most of the limitations apear to become an issue when you start writing extensions to do things other than those directly relating to editing of text i.e. web browser, mail readers, chat /IM clients, etc. Tim -- tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <de03fb13-8efb-495c-9112-36bf1abd1cc4@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>]
* Re: Guile vs ELisp [not found] ` <de03fb13-8efb-495c-9112-36bf1abd1cc4@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> @ 2010-11-05 2:16 ` Elena 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Elena @ 2010-11-05 2:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Nov 4, 9:30 am, Elena <egarr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Don't hold your breath, though. > > A Scheme-based editor already exists: it's Edwin (MIT Scheme). I > remember someone already implemented Emacs Lisp on top of Edwin for a > student project, but he didn't post his work on the Internet. Found the paper: http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA276721 Does anybody knows whether sources have been released? Since it is a quite old project, my guess is it will be difficult to find. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-11-09 14:45 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-11-03 23:11 Guile vs ELisp Dani Moncayo 2010-11-04 15:38 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2010-11-04 16:17 ` Tassilo Horn 2010-11-09 14:45 ` Dani Moncayo 2010-11-04 16:32 ` Stefan Husmann 2010-11-04 19:59 ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz [not found] <mailman.4.1288834774.2711.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2010-11-04 1:52 ` Jason Earl 2010-11-04 10:38 ` Richard Riley 2010-11-04 7:10 ` Tim X [not found] ` <de03fb13-8efb-495c-9112-36bf1abd1cc4@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 2010-11-05 2:16 ` Elena
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