From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: keyboard politics [Was: Key bindings proposal] Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:22:31 -0700 Organization: xahlee.org Message-ID: <4C670917.2040709@gmail.com> References: <0MA8Ib-1OdzCU08CX-00BIlN@mx.perfora.net> Reply-To: xahlee@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281820970 31710 80.91.229.12 (14 Aug 2010 21:22:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:22:50 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 14 23:22:49 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkOBj-0002qG-Gv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 23:22:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54047 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkOBi-0004b3-SP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:22:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=35708 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkOBd-0004af-91 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:22:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkOBc-00062s-0z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:22:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pv0-f169.google.com ([74.125.83.169]:45310) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkOBb-00062n-Rf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:22:39 -0400 Original-Received: by pvc30 with SMTP id 30so2319547pvc.0 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:22:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uOjwplz4EAvYw5ekqGbvKfjoB2qOtr+H0vYSzuiOZ+g=; b=xSjqFn3mtSLyoVuC1YBSwW0qkady1ocSaZ5qpsmAO/szxQI7iVLtt7pHCPeqdq1Ah1 fs/ON7aEi4gy1r0IY5URprtZ7yFQIVyjkWoB61WIOTysd1cKzBLyA8JIWXMDtxJ0qRxk wn+kQQ0UwkinVwDFtPIcMxPYT/1ISPKf5W9qA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:organization:user-agent:mime-version :to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Gxm+l2zHrSPdl67ZF1ERjm1gvBIaDxl383RRWDnndL9rvFpbXHXjy3euxL1JRP9Swz PatWc72tyQPpkT2hqcMUe6VDNv2oxY0IvgnFcMCeIR2EoBHkkbJjgyv+DjfFDlb0CQJA EPzHHqqv/zIzNqZfNWIU9WYl6tqb1KiWzKkE4= Original-Received: by 10.114.190.20 with SMTP id n20mr3811490waf.10.1281820958907; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-67-180-85-8.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.180.85.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k23sm7910611waf.17.2010.08.14.14.22.37 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:22:38 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2 In-Reply-To: <0MA8Ib-1OdzCU08CX-00BIlN@mx.perfora.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128704 Archived-At: Uday Reddy wrote: > Microsoft never made any complete systems. They started out as sellers of > compilers and made their name as the *suppliers* of DOS to IBM. When IBM's > monopoly ended and the PC became an open architecture, they became suppliers to > us. So, they do not have ownership of the PC or the keyboard that goes with > it. Their assertion of ownership to a pair of modifier keys, whose idea has > been long in existence before their birth even, is illegitimate. the way i'm guessing how the Win logo became common in PC keyboard is this: Microsoft invented the key and logo (probably influenced by Apple), and place it on the keyboard they manufacture, as well integrated in their OS for use of that key. Perhaps in a year or two, other keyboard manufactures, in competition with Microsoft's hardware department, also wanted to have that key, because MS's OS is very popular. i'm not sure if there's anything explicitly sinister about how it came to became so popular. keyboard manufactures do not have to make keyboard with that key or logo. Daz, Happy Hacker keyboards, Optimus, Kinesis, sell versions of keyboard that don't have the win logo. ( photo & link: http://xahlee.org/emacs/keyboards_hacker_idiocy.html ) though it'd be nice if someone knows about this history and tell us. Xah