From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Key bindings proposal Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:40:18 -0700 Organization: xahlee.org Message-ID: <4C658382.6070404@gmail.com> References: <0LpLKf-1PMJpV3jOf-00eqos@mx.perfora.net> Reply-To: xahlee@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281727182 32349 80.91.229.12 (13 Aug 2010 19:19:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 19:19:42 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 13 21:19:40 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ojzmz-0002Ky-Fx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 21:19:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43900 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OjzjE-0006jK-Fx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:15:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57608 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OjyEy-0004o5-Sf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:40:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjyEx-0006Mm-Ln for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:40:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-px0-f169.google.com ([209.85.212.169]:61514) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjyEx-0006Md-DU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:40:23 -0400 Original-Received: by pxi5 with SMTP id 5so1573765pxi.0 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:40:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=834LXcHW5L7ibISEP8DQX6+gIjHxCBsy/28Awe7iIoQ=; b=MlOMoMrTBGHpKH+rp7mHSgyUzjhpcs9jBxns5w3afg0C7lGGyDYXuuj6gCSu7g/P0J v8+Efell6AYs8nlMq/dLiOq6JWcNyRq7bfHIWmp0dBFmf5J+dHxzmsYGLY/mFUbuc3G2 AYL0Vzfm7iQ6I6a/scGXR/iUIo4vScpD3ZRfs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:organization:user-agent:mime-version :to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=oE8z6KVI7lshrCS8toN8EKdDv5C7v3jMG8cfldSaYRgFIrjTiFaQN7b/iMhPC/2BZo O5zpgyv7HOhz/amlGgI1vFOgZ47TeNDBbOzb53GTsjF7fbdf5tYjO/0OhXu9bzygrWgg boiAJafOgSmyYDF9AbnpbwEvYjQ4dnUP0C3/I= Original-Received: by 10.115.107.7 with SMTP id j7mr2095373wam.107.1281721222442; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-67-180-85-8.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.180.85.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n32sm4981608wag.23.2010.08.13.10.40.21 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:40:21 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6 In-Reply-To: <0LpLKf-1PMJpV3jOf-00eqos@mx.perfora.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:15:38 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128629 Archived-At: Uday S Reddy writes: > Hi guys, I am not sure where this discussion is headed. Whether these > applications of the windows key are "useful" or not is for the users > to determine, is it not? Chong Yidong wrote: > The problem is that Lennart's proposed solution seems to be the wrong > one. If you want to rebind the Windows key to a modifier key, the > conceptually correct way to do it should be via a separate program, > separate from Emacs. That is exactly how it is done on GNU/Linux (where > conventions like Alt-TAB are commonly respected, nowadays). > > If there is any technical reason why this cannot be done on Windows, I > have not yet seen anyone argue it. Emacs on Mac all allow either Cmd or Opt to be Meta though. doesn't matter which choice, they step on the OS's function. Cmd is Mac's primary modifier (e.g. copy is Cmd+c, open is Cmd+o), and Opt is for inserting special chars (e.g. like AltGr). same can be said on Windows. Both Alt and Win key have OS purposes. doesn't matter which key emacs uses a meta by default on either Mac or Windows, they intrude the OS keys. Doesn't make sense to me to say setting Win key as Meta is not stepping on OS operation while setting it to Win is. (personally i prefer Alt as Meta on Windows and i don't agree with Lennart or Uday that Alt is more critical than Win in Windows. I think they are both rather important, and i use both heavily on Windows outside of emacs. Win key in general is for system-wide operation, and Microsoft in last few years has more and more emphazied that key's importance thru Windows Vista and now Windows 7. Alt is importance because it provides a system wide method to access any app's menu by pressing key sequences. Quite efficient and is commonly used by power users (e.g. programers).) Overall, i don't think there's any conclusive argument whether by default Alt or Win should be Meta, but providing this choice to user i think is critical for emacs. Xah