From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bidi,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bidi Emacs: R2L paragraphs and the direction of glyph_row Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:11:47 +0900 Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University Message-ID: <4B0FB3F3.5050804@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <83y6nagz4p.fsf@gnu.org> <78ae59bf0911260658q5cecc350k22392b01bbff98bd@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259320356 662 80.91.229.12 (27 Nov 2009 11:12:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:12:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-bidi@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 27 12:12:29 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NDykW-0002pd-HC for gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:12:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35367 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NDykW-0000I5-0R for gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:12:28 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NDykS-0000GU-CP for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:12:24 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NDykL-0000E2-VK for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:12:23 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41478 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NDykL-0000Dq-OK for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:12:17 -0500 Original-Received: from scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.251.42]:46263) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NDykL-0007M1-0R for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:12:17 -0500 Original-Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.159]) by scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id nARBC8Y4011233 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:12:09 +0900 Original-Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 65a5_b3e59174_db45_11de_bb29_001d096c5782; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:12:08 +0900 Original-Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:55705) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:08:31 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 In-Reply-To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp id nARBC8Y4011233 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-bidi@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Emacs support for multi-directional text." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bidi:432 gmane.emacs.devel:117866 Archived-At: Hello Eli, Gregg, On 2009/11/27 1:10, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:58:39 -0600 >> From: Gregg Reynolds >> It's also a major pain to edit XML in a bidi editor. And I do mean >> major. > > Again, an explicit list of main problems would be useful (although I > deliberately decided not to handle bidirectional editing for meta > documents yet, so this specific class of problems is still a long way > from being dealt with). This is a well-known problem. For some more background and some attempt=20 at a solution, please see: http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp/2005/pub/IUC28-bidi/ and http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp/2008/pub/IUC32-bidi/ Unfortunately, the test prototype available at http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp/2008/pub/IUC32-bidi/bidi-source.html is not very usable currently because the carret jumps around and has to=20 be repositioned. That problem has been solved, but I didn't get around=20 to make the update publicly available. Anyway, both the simulation and=20 the Web-based editor should make it possible to test your problem cases=20 and tell us whether our solutions help (we know they aren't perfect;=20 there is no such thing as perfect bidi, unfortunately). Questions and comments are very welcome! In a discussion with Ken'ichi Handa and Naoto Takahashi in 2005, they=20 pointed out that using bidi marks in overlays should make it possible in=20 bidi emacs to address this problem. Unfortunately, nobody here is=20 familiar enough with emacs lisp to implement this, but I'd be very glad=20 to help somebody with some emacs lisp skills to work on such a project. Regards, Martin. --=20 #-# Martin J. D=C3=BCrst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp