From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Rumney Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.bidi Subject: Re: Bidirectional editing in Emacs -- main design decisions Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:13:48 +0800 Message-ID: <4AD0A4AC.8010202@gnu.org> References: <83bpkgl113.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1255187655 1838 80.91.229.12 (10 Oct 2009 15:14:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:14:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-bidi@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 10 17:14:07 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Mwde2-0002Ef-HY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:14:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45383 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Mwde1-0001rY-L3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:14:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Mwddt-0001od-An for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:13:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Mwdds-0001nf-FU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:13:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41366 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Mwddr-0001n3-Jj; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:13:55 -0400 Original-Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.147]:35339) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Mwddq-0005sJ-Hw; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:13:54 -0400 Original-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so3429122qwc.24 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:13:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:received:message-id :date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=i3x8vm5fPUVumCoz8rCR3MzGT/nHOAypQOqFpsFiIBU=; b=XfonU65bIK5faKtnR6c6RADVN+lqou+VJNVp8w+lGBhbHF6QhsomaR24E5jbWblDD2 pStOdylj7pVZra+PSxAuwkHSbPLRBhPoUyMpDHxiKA8D480q97tK8bIO19RwpijFl3uH 0rlDdBFYYNw1IhbqNn2bWckRZt9w1+GTyjEdM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VJLnzam361T3A9s5xjZJr8ZDhv+Gr18U5pTqHz2madZorSA1Frn3tOG6qkzZvLka/o lc+zrSGsIRaKsaMisbhWQImOhpl08HlKcaXk+kC8agqDJCcnyT5OByRJyOO3MGKEIIeC vG6Cfca1ziVDqe46rHSgEi/GWfZtH+90jEQAg= Original-Received: by 10.224.85.80 with SMTP id n16mr3598057qal.200.1255187634013; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from wanchan.jasonrumney.net ([124.13.6.10]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm614141qyk.11.2009.10.10.08.13.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from wanchan.jasonrumney.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wanchan.jasonrumney.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52403451; Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:13:48 +0800 (MYT) User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090706) In-Reply-To: <83bpkgl113.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:116067 gmane.emacs.bidi:416 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > 4. Reordering of text for display > Does the function font-shape-gstring help with fitting this in? > 8. User control of visual order > > I decided it was unjustified to deviate from UAX#9. Its algorithm > already provides the solution to this problem: users can always > control the visual order by inserting special formatting codes at > strategic places. Couldn't Emacs by default use the clever heuristics to decide when to automatically insert the special formatting codes? It would have to be optional and undoable of course, because heuristics are never perfect, but it seems to me as a naive non-speaker of RTL languages that to DWIM in these edge cases is the right behaviour. Also you mention several times that the special direction change codes are not displayed, but there should be an option to display them IMHO, (perhaps part of whitespace.el) as users may need to distinguish between explicit direction changes and implicit ones in some circumstances.