From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andreas Roehler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Documentation of transient-mark-mode is sloppy, wrong, and confused. Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:47:50 +0200 Message-ID: <4A1F7706.80501@online.de> References: <20090528122927.GA2175@muc.de> <87fxepf9s8.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <20090528201529.GA4605@muc.de> <87bppdx8c0.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <20090528230359.GA1474@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243575992 11421 80.91.229.12 (29 May 2009 05:46:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 05:46:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Kevin Rodgers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 29 07:46:29 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M9uvE-0001rU-TE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 07:46:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58804 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M9uvB-0006Gd-Hq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 01:46:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M9uv2-0006GJ-Ax for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 01:46:16 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M9uux-0006Fj-1E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 01:46:15 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39667 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M9uuw-0006Fg-O1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 01:46:10 -0400 Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.186]:57789) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M9uuw-0003Xp-5S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 01:46:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.27] (p54BE9DEA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.190.157.234]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKxQS-1M9uur2OHf-000223; Fri, 29 May 2009 07:46:08 +0200 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20081227) In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18GwHSh1fIlwQOTJzkx19GVIDu0X8x1QZ7RERW ezxNvzTcjwJPLmo58ZKJcl8EiXIRBAe3SSv+7nGqKhq6ZRZUL4 VXGZ2evgu+87nurFCbLhI+RsezzJHCvj9eneYMNkXM= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111177 Archived-At: Kevin Rodgers wrote: > Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> Hmmm. No you haven't. You have noted one of the circumstances in which >>> a mark becomes active, yet haven't said what it is for a mark to BE >>> active. It is as though a young child has asked you what "pregnant" >>> means, and the entire gist of your answer is "a woman becomes pregnant >>> after a kissing and cuddling session". Unless you mention the growing >>> foetus, your answer is evasive and unhelpful, in fact not really an >>> answer at all. What, exactly, is the essence of "active"ness, in the >>> same way that the foetus is the essence of pregnancy? >> >> The problkem is that the activeness of the mark doesn't describe some >> property of some other state. It's a state itself. In your analogy, >> there's no foetus that would allow us to determine whether the mark >> is active. All we have is the `mark-active' variable, so in the end all >> we can say is "the mark is active if the mark is active". > > Can't we say that "the mark is active if `mark-active' is non-nil"? > > Note that mark-active is not mentioned in the Emacs manual, only in the > Emacs Lisp manual. > We have three states but two words for now to describe it States are: - the mark is set - the mark is set and exists at different location from point, i.e. region has an extent - region has an extent and is visible (transient-mark-mode on) The both first may be described with `exist' The both latter with `active' Confusion might be solved naming the states 1) region-exists-p 2) region-has-extent 3) region-is-visible Best regards Andreas Röhler