all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
Cc: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>,
	hannes@saeurebad.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: ["agree"] Release plans
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:16:33 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <48B3ADD1.50903@emf.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87prnwgyvc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Personally, I agree with Tom: we should be going all-out to encourage
> use of free software, using three main tactics: (1) emphasizing the
> importance of software freedom (eg, from a code-is-law basis), (2)
> emphasizing the costs both in freedom and economic value of non-free
> software, and (3) providing kick-ass software that everybody wants to
> use.
>   

I'm saying an additional thing that is a bit subtle.   So, there should
be a (4) in that list.

The additional thing is a qualifier on "kick-ass software".

We want (4) Kick-ass software that is kick-ass in the specific
sense that a maximized number of users will find it personally
beneficial to themselves to study the code, modify it, and share
modifications.

That is, we want software that is not only a good choice among
software in general but, among the good choices, we want software
architectures and engineering practices that non-linearly reward
the *exercise* of software freedom by as many users as we can.
If a lot of people are fully USING software freedom, then they
and many others will come to EXPECT software freedom and
DEFEND software freedom.   Seems like a no-brainer, to me.

I would claim that API features like a dynamic loader or
tree print/read in GCC are special.   They encourage people to
get work done by studying, modifying, and sharing code -- by their
nature.   GNU should / should have run for such features rather
than ban them.   Those feature-ban decisions were pretty much
the opposite of right.

I also am saying that I can't think of any non-contrived feature
bans that wouldn't be subject to the same criticism.   At least as a
good rule of thumb, I think we could just say that, in general,
no feature is banned.   Then we don't have to spend nearly as much
time thinking about what not to implement (and always, eventually,
coming up with the null set as the best-guess answer).

-t


-t






  reply	other threads:[~2008-08-26  7:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 209+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-08-12 14:34 Release plans A Soare
2008-08-12 14:52 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 17:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-13  6:26   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-13  9:20     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14  5:19       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14  8:38         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14  9:33           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14  9:49             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 10:04               ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 10:30                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 11:07                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 11:44                     ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-14 12:27                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-15 12:45                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14 12:39                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 13:15                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 13:28                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 13:41                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 17:08                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-14 14:30                         ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-08-14 18:00                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 14:18                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-15 17:54                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 16:29                         ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-16 10:40                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14 10:37                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 11:24                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 12:54                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 13:31                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 14:02                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 16:55                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  1:41                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-17  7:16                             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  3:41                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  4:04                   ` Sean O'Rourke
2008-08-15 20:12                     ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-08-15  5:08                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-16  0:08                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  5:14                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-15 17:20                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:39                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16 12:05                       ` joakim
2008-08-17  7:16                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  9:32                           ` joakim
2008-08-18  6:14                             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18  7:19                               ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-18  8:03                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-18  8:26                               ` joakim
2008-08-19 12:21                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 13:02                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-20  3:47                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  5:20                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19 13:42                                   ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-20  3:48                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18 14:20                               ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-08-18 17:13                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 17:42                                 ` Paul R
2008-08-19 12:21                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  0:01                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-21 23:09                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-22  0:34                                       ` whither GNU Thomas Lord
2008-08-22  0:17                                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-22  3:40                                           ` David Robinow
2008-08-22  7:36                                             ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-23  5:09                                               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-22 10:21                                             ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-22 21:31                                               ` Thomas Lord
     [not found]                                                 ` <858wuoad0u.fsf@lola.goethe.zz>
2008-08-23  4:56                                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 16:29                       ` Release plans Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-16 21:04                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 21:35                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-16 22:43                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-17  7:31                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18  0:01                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 10:18                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18 17:58                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 20:20                                     ` Dynamic loading (was: Release plans) Stefan Monnier
2008-08-18 22:18                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-20 16:15                                         ` Dynamic loading Stefan Monnier
2008-08-20 16:57                                           ` joakim
2008-08-25 13:09                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-26 16:37                                             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18 21:09                                     ` Release plans Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18 23:27                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19 10:23                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-19 11:56                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19  9:46                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 12:36                                         ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-20  5:55                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-20 17:48                                             ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25  1:34                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 10:47                                                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25 13:13                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 15:19                                                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25 17:11                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-26  4:10                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-26 10:59                                                           ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-27  5:00                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 11:37                                                               ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-28  5:42                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-28 10:17                                                                   ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-26 16:37                                                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-26 18:14                                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 18:54                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-27 20:33                                                             ` Paul R
2008-08-29  2:41                                                               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-29  5:34                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 11:39                                                                   ` Bruce Stephens
2008-08-29 13:11                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-29 19:23                                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 20:03                                                                         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-29 20:20                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-29 20:53                                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-29 23:24                                                                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 22:56                                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-30 19:51                                                                             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-30 23:07                                                                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-31  9:09                                                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-29 22:53                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-31  9:27                                                                             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-29 19:13                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 23:48                                                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01  6:11                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01 18:25                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 22:32                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 21:57                                                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-28  0:10                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29  2:40                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-29  5:30                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 22:09                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-28  1:10                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01  6:11                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01 18:09                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02  1:09                                                                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-02  2:18                                                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02 14:13                                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-02 20:48                                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01 18:20                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-09-01 20:17                                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01 19:53                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-09-01 21:23                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02  3:26                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-09-02 20:43                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-03  5:08                                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 23:09                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-28  0:22                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-28  1:01                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-26 21:25                                                         ` joakim
2008-08-29  2:41                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 15:52                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-25 14:39                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 22:01                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-25 22:19                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-26  4:54                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-26  7:16                                                 ` Thomas Lord [this message]
2008-08-27  5:10                                                   ` ["agree"] " Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 16:00                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-26 10:02                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-27  5:38                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 21:06                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-27 21:12                                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-28 20:01                                                         ` Sean Sieger
2008-08-28  6:07                                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 15:57                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-27 18:33                                                   ` tomas
2008-08-28  6:09                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-28  8:14                                                       ` tomas
2008-08-28  7:25                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-28  8:23                                                       ` tomas
2008-08-28  6:26                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 16:31                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-20  3:47                                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  6:14                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 12:21                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 13:04                                       ` Paul R
2008-08-20  3:48                                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  2:37                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-17  8:01                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-17 17:42                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-17 21:07                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-17 21:24                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-17 21:33                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-17 22:31                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-18  3:06                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-18  6:14                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17 21:45                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-18  6:14                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18 17:09                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-19 16:28                                   ` René Kyllingstad
2008-08-20  3:48                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  7:16                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  3:41               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 17:17                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:40                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  7:14                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 17:24             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-15  3:41           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 14:04             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-15 15:10               ` [OT] " Yavor Doganov
2008-08-16  7:05                 ` Miles Bader
2008-08-17  7:16                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 16:35               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 18:07                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:40               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16 10:40               ` Richard M. Stallman

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=48B3ADD1.50903@emf.net \
    --to=lord@emf.net \
    --cc=acm@muc.de \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=hannes@saeurebad.de \
    --cc=rms@gnu.org \
    --cc=stephen@xemacs.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.