From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thomas Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:07:33 -0700 Message-ID: <48A5C5E5.4020308@emf.net> References: <10697146.3630221218551689983.JavaMail.www@wwinf4615> <20080812171404.GB7999@muc.de> <20080813092057.GA3010@muc.de> <20080814083817.GA2593@muc.de> <20080815140413.GA4781@muc.de> <87wsiigrsh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1218820690 2199 80.91.229.12 (15 Aug 2008 17:18:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:18:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , "Richard M. Stallman" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 15 19:19:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KU2wz-0003gw-Fq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:18:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34676 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KU2w2-0003zh-RZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:17:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KU2vz-0003zB-34 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:17:55 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KU2vy-0003yn-AC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:17:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41147 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KU2vy-0003yk-3a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:17:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.42inc.com ([205.149.0.25]:41054) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (SSL 3.0:RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KU2vt-0008J1-Dg; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:17:49 -0400 X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.5 X-TFF-CGPSA-Filter-42inc: Scanned X-42-Virus-Scanned: by 42 Antivirus -- Found to be clean. Original-Received: from [69.236.75.128] (account lord@emf.net HELO [192.168.1.64]) by mail.42inc.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 36960138; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:17:36 -0700 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060808) In-Reply-To: <87wsiigrsh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102502 Archived-At: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > > > I think it's more important for people actually to be free than to be > > aware of it. > > Freedom is about choice; choice requires awareness of alternatives and > that you are able to choose them. IMO, you cannot "actually be free" > without being aware of it. > That's too simple. Hopefully one's freedoms are larger in scope than one's awareness can fully grasp. That is, we (hope to be) always more free than we can ever know -- we always have only partial knowledge of our possible choices. Instead, we're free to do anything in the intersection of that those choices we can *discover* from our current state with those choices that are physically available to us. Of course, even the question of "what choices can we *discover*" doesn't have a static, classical answer. For example, to discover choice A might preclude discovering choice B and vice versa -- so, before we see either choice A or B, where are we exactly? Free to A or free to B but not both in one sense. In another sense not free to A or B until we become aware of one or the other. Simplistic "rational actor" theories of "freedom" don't cut it except as approximations. All this highly abstract ethical theory is a cul de sac: pretty to drive around and have a look at but, then to get anywhere else, you have to leave and find another street. In a civic context, the question is simpler: a condition of liberty is one in which the civil order doesn't impose an obstacle to a given choice or to discovering that choice. The conclusion is the same, though, regarding dynamic loading in GNU Emacs. The civil order precludes doing so. Users are deprived of a freedom that could otherwise be trivially afforded them by virtue of a deliberate effort to achieve exactly that effect. -t > > >