From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:52:59 +0200 Message-ID: <48A1A3CB.9040106@gmail.com> References: <10697146.3630221218551689983.JavaMail.www@wwinf4615> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1218552806 22103 80.91.229.12 (12 Aug 2008 14:53:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:53:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Emacs Dev \[emacs-devel\]" To: alinsoar@voila.fr Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 12 16:54:18 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KSvGD-0000yR-2C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:54:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34713 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KSvFG-0002CT-Ts for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:53:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KSvFC-0002AI-Be for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:53:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KSvFB-00028j-Ib for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:53:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46671 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KSvFB-00028U-Cq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:53:05 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]:49122) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KSvFA-0001QE-Lp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:53:05 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-151-176.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.151.176]:64269 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KSvF8-0006A5-7L; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:53:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <10697146.3630221218551689983.JavaMail.www@wwinf4615> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080811-0, 2008-08-11), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.151.176 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KSvF8-0006A5-7L. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1KSvF8-0006A5-7L 72e8b3a216f2ddc7a7970d8d38e85a03 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102340 Archived-At: A Soare wrote: >> A Soare wrote: >>>>> Quite so! Investing energy to develop it under Windows is (almost) loss of energy! >>>> Yes, I understood that this is what you meant. But in what way did you >>>> reach this conclusion? >>> By induction. I do not use Windows, and in linux I use emacs for lots of purposes. >> So you mean that for you personal benefits there is no use in developing >> Emacs under Windows? ;-) > > I do not say that for _my_benefit_. I say that in general almost nobody use emacs in windows. There are exceptions, quite so. But I have never seen exceptions. Thanks. So maybe I can say what I wanted to point out: You are exaggerating and extrapolating from personal experiences. That is of course fine sometimes, but not when you want to make conclusions. I trust you when you say that you have not meat anyone using Emacs on Windows. However I am sure you have read about people doing that. And they all have their own reasons. Would it not be fair to include their reasons before making a conclusion? >>>>> Emacs and Linux is used just by peuple that wants to understand how things work. >>>> Do you say that there is no use for Emacs? >>> In windows, yes, that is what I say. In Windows it is completely unuseful. >> Then why is there a use for it under Linux? It seems like you are saying >> that software under Linux is inferior to the corresponding software >> under Windows and because of this Emacs can be useful on Linux. > > No, there is no contradiction in what I say. Are you sure? Didn't you say that the developers you know do not use Emacs on Windows because there are better software for their purpose on Windows? And didn't you mean that you trust them? Why shouldn't we then develop software similar to that they use on Windows? It seems like you are hiding some parts of your answer from me ... Of course I agree with you about making a better world, but I believe that sound reasoning is part of going forward in that direction. >>>>> Windows is used by peuple that want to gain money and to arrive quiqkly at their purpose. >>>> Do you say that using Emacs makes it take long time to do things? >>> It takes little time when you have already learned how to use it. >> > The first time when you did a thing, you will never choose something >> different. >> > Here is the point: the psychology. Peuple prefers never to make the >> first effort, >> > and they prefer to use something to arrive quickly at the point. >> >> Can we use that point to do something actively? Can we make Emacs better >> in a way that it satisfies those people's need? (Still not sacrifiying >> other things.) > > This is like demanding to a cannibal "do you want to become a chretien"? > Not taking into account a famous tribe of cannibals that died because they > lost their native croyance in cannibalisme, the question whether the user > want to use emacs does not depend on emacs. > But on his values in which he is educated. Don't you just throw away information here? > So my answer is: this is not a question for programmers, but for educators and family. Note: It looks like your mail program does something that Thunderbird does not expect at all. Thunderbird does not wrap the lines when commenting on your text. Do you know the reason? (It takes a lot of time that this does not work.)