From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:08:33 +0200 Message-ID: <4889EC71.9050906@gmail.com> References: <87ej5oz4pb.fsf@saeurebad.de> <87vdyzxype.fsf@saeurebad.de> <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> <863alzd1mi.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <857ibayq3q.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216998556 1789 80.91.229.12 (25 Jul 2008 15:09:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:09:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 25 17:10:05 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMOvg-0000fb-39 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:10:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35356 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMOum-0006D3-A3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:09:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMOui-0006CY-4l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:09:00 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMOud-0006Ar-NZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:08:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=35669 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMOud-0006Ao-HA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:08:55 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]:47595) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KMOuS-000307-0f; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:08:44 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-151-176.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.151.176]:65399 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KMOuQ-0004Yk-7r; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:08:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <857ibayq3q.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Antivirus: avast! 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101465 Archived-At: David Kastrup wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> From: Richard M Stallman >>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:05:28 -0400 >>> Cc: lord@emf.net, drobinow@gmail.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, >>> hannes@saeurebad.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, miles@gnu.org >>> >>> > When I ask myself, is the world better for having Emacs and Firefox >>> > running on Microsoft Windows, the answer is an unequivocal yes - >>> > people who hack on MS-Windows can thus do a better job. >>> >>> But their job does not in general benefit others. So we are creating >>> better opportunities for work that does not help the community. >>> >>> I agree. >> Are you saying that my hacking on the Windows Emacs doesn't benefit >> others, including Emacs on other platforms? > > You don't have time left for getting Emacs-Bidi to run on any platform, > right? Now it is, of course, your choice what to spend your developer > time on, like it is everybody other's choice, too. Maybe the easiest way to give Eli more time for that is give good support for needed tools on w32? At least a lot of my time has been spent working around different deficiencys in GNU tools and other things needed on w32. I do not know the reasons for these deficiences, but the deficiences are there. And they take a lot of time to get around sometimes. (We have currently been discussing the build/distribution problem for example.) I can guess two main reasons for the deficiencies: 1) Lack of knowledge. It is not very common that someone knows both the GNU/Linux API and the w32 API in depth. A problem of this kind was the network problem with Emacs client on w32 (which took Juanma quite a while to solve). Like most other people I would assume that this kind of problems should be worked around with libraries when possible. Something ios maybe wrong when this does not work? 2) The other reason I guess is important is attitude. If a lot of people with good reputation says that working on w32 is not that important then those with a more admiring mind might agree without really diving into the subject. That shows up in code quality later.