From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David De La Harpe Golden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: inputting characters by hexadigit Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:08:03 +0100 Message-ID: <48867663.7070001@harpegolden.net> References: <868ww3vydn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87tzeokrku.fsf@jurta.org><87tzeogih6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <488020A4.4060601@harpegolden.net> <873am6rb8k.fsf@jurta.org><87r69oqojm.fsf@jurta.org> <007c01c8ec1b$96c25750$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216771716 8432 80.91.229.12 (23 Jul 2008 00:08:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:08:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: handa@m17n.org, lekktu@gmail.com, tzz@lifelogs.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Drew Adams , miles@gnu.org To: ams@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 23 02:09:24 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLRv0-0004Bj-6s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:09:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36661 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLRu6-0003lQ-OP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:08:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLRu0-0003lD-Jp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:08:20 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLRu0-0003kr-40 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:08:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45589 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLRtz-0003km-RE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:08:19 -0400 Original-Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]:45474) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLRtq-0003ul-1C; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:08:10 -0400 Original-Received: from golden1.harpegolden.net (86-43-160-123.b-ras2.prp.dublin.eircom.net [86.43.160.123]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8148782C7; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:08:05 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080509) In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101264 Archived-At: Alfred M. Szmidt wrote: > What about C-\ and having a input method (maybe that already exists?), The ucs input method _does_ exist. However, especially if you're already using some other input method, it's a bit of a pain to switch to ucs and back again just for the odd character. It needs a little expansion (it only covers the BMP (4-hexit codes) and maybe should handle unicode names if that's now legally feasible) Er. Though I guess I should confess that I tend to have the ucs IM a C-\ away - I tend to use system-level input methods (scim/skim) for languages= ... M-x ucs-insert (or M-x uc TAB RET) is shorter than switching input method with C-x RET C-\ ucs RET , though presently doesn't allow C-u for repetition, which is annoying (though that's presumably easily fixed). > Inserting unicode in hex cannot be _that_ common that it requires a > short keybinding... If you're doing a lot of i18n/m17n/l10n work it can just be handy - and you're quite likely to be in another input method, too, so the ucs input method is less handy. [following is mostly just thread recap...] =E2=98=86 The fact remains, there is already an existing short-keybinding facility in emacs for numeric char code entry =E2=80=BD - C-q supports en= tering by numeric code. It used to be okay on unibyte emacs , but is a bit unsuitable for unicode emacs, at least with its default octal (icky octal) radix. Despite that, N.B., _it already works for entering unicode_, except that right now, the existing facility does the wrong thing for codes between #o240 and #o377. At the very least, that's a bug that needs to be resolved, even if nothing else changes as a result of this thread... The facility does damage the "purity" of C-q - If the real point of C-q is to literally insert the next keypress, it obviously blocks that for 0-7 or 0-9 or 0-9a-fA-F depending on your setting of read-quoted-char-radix. But if it were to be dropped from C-q, then it'd be IMO reasonable for people to expect a similarly easy alternative. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_input Emacs _clashes with_ the short keybinding for unicode input typical on gtk/GNOME desktops - C-s-U (which emacs can't treat as different to C-u in general due to terminal restrictions). (... Hmm. Is M-+ taken? would be a bit like the windoze keybinding...) It's one thing for emacs to provide different short keybindings for typically-short-keybinding-accessible functionality (as in C-w/M-w/C-y vs. C-x/C-c/C-v), it's another to not provide a short keybinding at all..= . [cheap shot] Vim provides quite a short keybinding - C-v u - for it. There is some fondness for unicode symbols in some circles, and some people DO just learn off a few hex codes. I myself tend to do =E2=98=98 / =E2=98=A0 / =E2=98=A2 / =E2=98=BA / =E2=99=AC etc. from memory (or at l= east remember such symbols are mostly blocks #x2600 #x2700 ...)