From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thomas Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:52:25 -0700 Message-ID: <487C6549.2080305@emf.net> References: <36366a980807101702r5677d096g8e62ef5b3e278868@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807111217m66d6cf4el777c197c107ce034@mail.gmail.com> <87skug6tq5.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <20080714195651.GF3445@muc.de> <487C5FA3.4070603@emf.net> <487C579F.3020800@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216109122 25286 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2008 08:05:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:05:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , drobinow@gmail.com, Richard M Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 15 10:06:08 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KIfXc-00015A-PU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:05:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50051 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfWj-0006P9-Em for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:04:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfWe-0006OB-1m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:04:44 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfWc-0006Mr-CC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:04:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=50951 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KIfWc-0006Mo-7t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:04:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:47013) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KIfWY-0002gh-53; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:04:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.42inc.com ([205.149.0.25]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KIfWX-00071n-Ad; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:04:37 -0400 X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.5 X-TFF-CGPSA-Filter-42inc: Scanned X-42-Virus-Scanned: by 42 Antivirus -- Found to be clean. Original-Received: from [69.236.114.9] (account lord@emf.net HELO [192.168.1.64]) by mail.42inc.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 35001604; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:04:24 -0700 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060808) In-Reply-To: <487C579F.3020800@gmail.com> X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100726 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote: > Thomas Lord wrote: >> The most important thing in such a large effort as a complete system >> is the standards: standards for coding, for documentation, for >> source code management, for configuration, build, install, patching and >> rebuild/reinstall, and uninstall. > > Yes, standards is the key to success. > > There are probably other areas for standards that could be mentioned > too. One could for example think about OpenOffice and the struggle to > implement an open standard for word processors. Thanks. Layering matters there, in my view: Getting source code management, configure, build, install standards right makes application level (e.g. functionality at the level of OpenOffice) easier to standardize on -- because you can then publish working, useful, reference implementation *components* to deal with those app-level standards. > > I find it hard to imagine that GNU/Linux will not be dominating when > there are (in a bright future) adequate standards. Before that time I > find it hard to believe that GNU/Linux can dominate. > > This is because standards makes it much easier to build on the work of > others - and the idea of doing that is at the bottom of GNU/Linux IMO. > Right. "Composability" (of source components) is the thing to optimize. From there, things can grow without giving over freedom (via licensing or more subtle controls) to intermediaries. The GNU project, per say, has failed and needs a reboot. -t