change in fill-paragraph

change in fill-paragraph

[ken]

With the versions of emacs I've been using for years, fill-paragraph 
won't fill/reformat include in its definition of a paragraph any line 
which begins with a space.  However, the newer emacs version I use at 
work will.  That is,

(1) In the older versions, this will be
one paragraph.  M-q will reformat it
fine.  I like it this way.
  (2) In the older versions, having just a
single space at the beginning
of a line tells paragraph-fill that this is
a separate paragraph.  So this would be a
separate paragraph.
  (3) In the new emacs version, all of these
would constitute one paragraph and so be
filled together.  I would much prefer the older way
fill-paragraph works... so that (1), (2), and (3)
stay where they are.

How would I restore the old behavior to the new version of emacs?


Thanks much.

-- 
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the
same level of thinking we were at when we created them.
	-- Albert Einstein

Re: change in fill-paragraph

[B. T. Raven]

ken wrote:
> 
> With the versions of emacs I've been using for years, fill-paragraph 
> won't fill/reformat include in its definition of a paragraph any line 
> which begins with a space.  However, the newer emacs version I use at 
> work will.  That is,
> 
> (1) In the older versions, this will be
> one paragraph.  M-q will reformat it
> fine.  I like it this way.
>  (2) In the older versions, having just a
> single space at the beginning
> of a line tells paragraph-fill that this is
> a separate paragraph.  So this would be a
> separate paragraph.
>  (3) In the new emacs version, all of these
> would constitute one paragraph and so be
> filled together.  I would much prefer the older way
> fill-paragraph works... so that (1), (2), and (3)
> stay where they are.
> 
> How would I restore the old behavior to the new version of emacs?
> 
> 
> Thanks much.
> 

You can get this with

"(paragraph-indent-text-mode)

Major mode for editing text, with leading spaces starting a paragraph.
In this mode, you do not need blank lines between paragraphs
when the first line of the following paragraph starts with whitespace.
`paragraph-indent-minor-mode' provides a similar facility ..."

Re: change in fill-paragraph

[ken]

On 04/19/2008 09:24 PM B. T. Raven wrote:
> ken wrote:
>>
>> With the versions of emacs I've been using for years, fill-paragraph 
>> won't fill/reformat include in its definition of a paragraph any line 
>> which begins with a space.  However, the newer emacs version I use at 
>> work will.  That is,
>>
>> (1) In the older versions, this will be
>> one paragraph.  M-q will reformat it
>> fine.  I like it this way.
>>  (2) In the older versions, having just a
>> single space at the beginning
>> of a line tells paragraph-fill that this is
>> a separate paragraph.  So this would be a
>> separate paragraph.
>>  (3) In the new emacs version, all of these
>> would constitute one paragraph and so be
>> filled together.  I would much prefer the older way
>> fill-paragraph works... so that (1), (2), and (3)
>> stay where they are.
>>
>> How would I restore the old behavior to the new version of emacs?
>>
>>
>> Thanks much.
>>
> 
> You can get this with
> 
> "(paragraph-indent-text-mode)
> 
> Major mode for editing text, with leading spaces starting a paragraph.
> In this mode, you do not need blank lines between paragraphs
> when the first line of the following paragraph starts with whitespace.
> `paragraph-indent-minor-mode' provides a similar facility ..."

Thanks for this, but I didn't want to change the entire mode, as the 
behavior above by fill-paragraph happens also when I'm using 
html-helper-mode, what I use for editing/creating html.  It may well 
happen in other modes also, e.g., perl-mode, c-mode... not sure, because 
I haven't tried a lot of other modes at work yet.

In brief, I just want to change the behavior of fill-paragraph back to 
what it was previously for all modes.  If paragraph-indent-minor-mode 
will do this, what would I need to put in ~/.emacs to invoke it for any 
file I might open and not have "paragraph-indent-minor-mode" show up in 
the mode line?  (My mode line already is already occupied with all it 
can accomodate.)


Again, thanks for your help.


-- 
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the
same level of thinking we were at when we created them.
	-- Albert Einstein

Re: change in fill-paragraph

[B. T. Raven]

ken wrote:
> On 04/19/2008 09:24 PM B. T. Raven wrote:
>> ken wrote:
>>>
>>> With the versions of emacs I've been using for years, fill-paragraph 
>>> won't fill/reformat include in its definition of a paragraph any line 
>>> which begins with a space.  However, the newer emacs version I use at 
>>> work will.  That is,
>>>
>>> (1) In the older versions, this will be
>>> one paragraph.  M-q will reformat it
>>> fine.  I like it this way.
>>>  (2) In the older versions, having just a
>>> single space at the beginning
>>> of a line tells paragraph-fill that this is
>>> a separate paragraph.  So this would be a
>>> separate paragraph.
>>>  (3) In the new emacs version, all of these
>>> would constitute one paragraph and so be
>>> filled together.  I would much prefer the older way
>>> fill-paragraph works... so that (1), (2), and (3)
>>> stay where they are.
>>>
>>> How would I restore the old behavior to the new version of emacs?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks much.
>>>
>>
>> You can get this with
>>
>> "(paragraph-indent-text-mode)
>>
>> Major mode for editing text, with leading spaces starting a paragraph.
>> In this mode, you do not need blank lines between paragraphs
>> when the first line of the following paragraph starts with whitespace.
>> `paragraph-indent-minor-mode' provides a similar facility ..."
> 
> Thanks for this, but I didn't want to change the entire mode, as the 
> behavior above by fill-paragraph happens also when I'm using 
> html-helper-mode, what I use for editing/creating html.  It may well 
> happen in other modes also, e.g., perl-mode, c-mode... not sure, because 
> I haven't tried a lot of other modes at work yet.
> 
> In brief, I just want to change the behavior of fill-paragraph back to 
> what it was previously for all modes.  If paragraph-indent-minor-mode 
> will do this, what would I need to put in ~/.emacs to invoke it for any 
> file I might open and not have "paragraph-indent-minor-mode" show up in 
> the mode line?  (My mode line already is already occupied with all it 
> can accomodate.)

I just typed M-x paragraph-indent-minor-mode in a text-mode buffer and 
it didn't change anything on the mode line. Then I did unfill paragraph 
on some indented and unindented random strings with no blank lines and 
they were treated as indented paragraphs. Then M-x text-mode turns off 
this minor mode.

> 
> 
> Again, thanks for your help.
> 
> 

I don't have any experience with these modes; they are new to me too and 
I just looked them up in the docs. I am happy with a blank line as 
paragraph separator and I don't see any need for the old conventions for 
paragraph-start and paragraph-separate. Maybe tweaking these two 
variables would give you what you want. Why do you want it anyway, may I 
ask? If it's for publication, you would want to run the file through a 
page layout program (TeX, Auctex) which will lose the blank lines, 
indent new paragraphs, and a whole lot more.

Re: change in fill-paragraph

[ken]

On 04/20/2008 01:32 PM B. T. Raven wrote:
> ken wrote:
>> On 04/19/2008 09:24 PM B. T. Raven wrote:
>>> ken wrote:
>>>>
>>>> With the versions of emacs I've been using for years, fill-paragraph 
>>>> won't fill/reformat include in its definition of a paragraph any 
>>>> line which begins with a space.  However, the newer emacs version I 
>>>> use at work will.  That is,
>>>>
>>>> (1) In the older versions, this will be
>>>> one paragraph.  M-q will reformat it
>>>> fine.  I like it this way.
>>>>  (2) In the older versions, having just a
>>>> single space at the beginning
>>>> of a line tells paragraph-fill that this is
>>>> a separate paragraph.  So this would be a
>>>> separate paragraph.
>>>>  (3) In the new emacs version, all of these
>>>> would constitute one paragraph and so be
>>>> filled together.  I would much prefer the older way
>>>> fill-paragraph works... so that (1), (2), and (3)
>>>> stay where they are.
>>>>
>>>> How would I restore the old behavior to the new version of emacs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks much.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You can get this with
>>>
>>> "(paragraph-indent-text-mode)
>>>
>>> Major mode for editing text, with leading spaces starting a paragraph.
>>> In this mode, you do not need blank lines between paragraphs
>>> when the first line of the following paragraph starts with whitespace.
>>> `paragraph-indent-minor-mode' provides a similar facility ..."
>>
>> Thanks for this, but I didn't want to change the entire mode, as the 
>> behavior above by fill-paragraph happens also when I'm using 
>> html-helper-mode, what I use for editing/creating html.  It may well 
>> happen in other modes also, e.g., perl-mode, c-mode... not sure, 
>> because I haven't tried a lot of other modes at work yet.
>>
>> In brief, I just want to change the behavior of fill-paragraph back to 
>> what it was previously for all modes.  If paragraph-indent-minor-mode 
>> will do this, what would I need to put in ~/.emacs to invoke it for 
>> any file I might open and not have "paragraph-indent-minor-mode" show 
>> up in the mode line?  (My mode line already is already occupied with 
>> all it can accomodate.)
> 
> I just typed M-x paragraph-indent-minor-mode in a text-mode buffer and 
> it didn't change anything on the mode line. Then I did unfill paragraph 
> on some indented and unindented random strings with no blank lines and 
> they were treated as indented paragraphs. Then M-x text-mode turns off 
> this minor mode.
> 
>>
>>
>> Again, thanks for your help.
>>
>>
> 
> I don't have any experience with these modes; they are new to me too and 
> I just looked them up in the docs. I am happy with a blank line as 
> paragraph separator and I don't see any need for the old conventions for 
> paragraph-start and paragraph-separate. Maybe tweaking these two 
> variables would give you what you want. Why do you want it anyway, may I 
> ask? If it's for publication, you would want to run the file through a 
> page layout program (TeX, Auctex) which will lose the blank lines, 
> indent new paragraphs, and a whole lot more.
> 

Thanks.  Those two variables may provide the answer.  I checked the 
values in the older version and they are different.  Perhaps just 
copying those into the new version will fix things.  Hopefully I won't 
have to play too much with the regexps.  There isn't a lot of time for 
that on the job.

Having all text filled into blocklike paragraphs might be okay in some 
situations, but when editing or writing something in html or C or perl 
etc., it's nice to preserve the structure indicated by indentations and 
nested indentations.  I really don't understand why the author of the 
latest emacs would want to dispense with that.

-- 
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the
same level of thinking we were at when we created them.
	-- Albert Einstein

Re: change in fill-paragraph

[ken]

On 04/22/2008 02:57 AM ken wrote:
> On 04/20/2008 01:32 PM B. T. Raven wrote:
>> ken wrote:
>>> On 04/19/2008 09:24 PM B. T. Raven wrote:
>>>> ken wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> With the versions of emacs I've been using for years, 
>>>>> fill-paragraph won't fill/reformat include in its definition of a 
>>>>> paragraph any line which begins with a space.  However, the newer 
>>>>> emacs version I use at work will.  That is,
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) In the older versions, this will be
>>>>> one paragraph.  M-q will reformat it
>>>>> fine.  I like it this way.
>>>>>  (2) In the older versions, having just a
>>>>> single space at the beginning
>>>>> of a line tells paragraph-fill that this is
>>>>> a separate paragraph.  So this would be a
>>>>> separate paragraph.
>>>>>  (3) In the new emacs version, all of these
>>>>> would constitute one paragraph and so be
>>>>> filled together.  I would much prefer the older way
>>>>> fill-paragraph works... so that (1), (2), and (3)
>>>>> stay where they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> How would I restore the old behavior to the new version of emacs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks much.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can get this with
>>>>
>>>> "(paragraph-indent-text-mode)
>>>>
>>>> Major mode for editing text, with leading spaces starting a paragraph.
>>>> In this mode, you do not need blank lines between paragraphs
>>>> when the first line of the following paragraph starts with whitespace.
>>>> `paragraph-indent-minor-mode' provides a similar facility ..."
>>>
>>> Thanks for this, but I didn't want to change the entire mode, as the 
>>> behavior above by fill-paragraph happens also when I'm using 
>>> html-helper-mode, what I use for editing/creating html.  It may well 
>>> happen in other modes also, e.g., perl-mode, c-mode... not sure, 
>>> because I haven't tried a lot of other modes at work yet.
>>>
>>> In brief, I just want to change the behavior of fill-paragraph back 
>>> to what it was previously for all modes.  If 
>>> paragraph-indent-minor-mode will do this, what would I need to put in 
>>> ~/.emacs to invoke it for any file I might open and not have 
>>> "paragraph-indent-minor-mode" show up in the mode line?  (My mode 
>>> line already is already occupied with all it can accomodate.)
>>
>> I just typed M-x paragraph-indent-minor-mode in a text-mode buffer and 
>> it didn't change anything on the mode line. Then I did unfill 
>> paragraph on some indented and unindented random strings with no blank 
>> lines and they were treated as indented paragraphs. Then M-x text-mode 
>> turns off this minor mode.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Again, thanks for your help.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I don't have any experience with these modes; they are new to me too 
>> and I just looked them up in the docs. I am happy with a blank line as 
>> paragraph separator and I don't see any need for the old conventions 
>> for paragraph-start and paragraph-separate. Maybe tweaking these two 
>> variables would give you what you want. Why do you want it anyway, may 
>> I ask? If it's for publication, you would want to run the file through 
>> a page layout program (TeX, Auctex) which will lose the blank lines, 
>> indent new paragraphs, and a whole lot more.
>>
> 
> Thanks.  Those two variables may provide the answer.  I checked the 
> values in the older version and they are different.  Perhaps just 
> copying those into the new version will fix things.  Hopefully I won't 
> have to play too much with the regexps.  There isn't a lot of time for 
> that on the job.
> 
> ....

And it worked... that is, putting in the values from my older version of 
emacs.  Now there's another change to roll back....

When I'm typing a line and get to the far right and the text wraps to 
the next line, the new version inserts a space into the first column on 
that next line.


-- 
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the
same level of thinking we were at when we created them.
	-- Albert Einstein

Re: change in fill-paragraph

[John J Foerch]

ken <gebser@speakeasy.net> writes:
>
> And it worked... that is, putting in the values from my older version
> of emacs.  Now there's another change to roll back....
>
> When I'm typing a line and get to the far right and the text wraps to
> the next line, the new version inserts a space into the first column
> on that next line.

Hello,

  What exactly did you do to resolve this?  I am also interested in
being able to fill paragraphs in this style.

Thanks,
John Foerch