From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:42:24 +0200 Message-ID: <480BB8C0.4020303@gmail.com> References: <004a01c8a1a0$7215cdd0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <878wz9btq8.fsf@jurta.org> <85fxthy4qp.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87hcdxz9zr.fsf_-_@jurta.org> <87ve2cfk9x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200804201931.m3KJVO4X008875@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <858wz8ux2w.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BA779.2080507@gmail.com> <853apguv0s.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BAD5C.4090204@gmail.com> <85prskte96.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208727790 26249 80.91.229.12 (20 Apr 2008 21:43:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:43:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Juri Linkov , Dan Nicolaescu , Stefan Monnier , drew.adams@oracle.com To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 20 23:43:34 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JnhJr-0008NF-LO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:43:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JnhJC-00048t-FN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:42:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JnhIy-00044P-Vz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:42:37 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JnhIy-000448-Gj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:42:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JnhIy-000443-7b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:42:36 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JnhIr-0003p3-5s; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:42:29 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-150-27.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.150.27]:59819 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JnhIo-0002wu-8i; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:42:27 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <85prskte96.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080420-0, 2008-04-20), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.150.27 X-ACL-Warn: Too high rate of unknown addresses received from you X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JnhIo-0002wu-8i. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JnhIo-0002wu-8i 46d35699891aa8d2146488f63f4ef688 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95558 Archived-At: David Kastrup wrote: >>>> Many new users expects this. >>> Not when they are not expecting an active region in the first place. >>> There are more ways to make a region active than the explicit ways that >>> a "new user expects". >> Why does that matter? Are we not talking about a visibly marked >> region? > > Not everybody searches the screen for tell-tale signs of an active > region before typing any letter. Yes, I know some long time Emacs users works this way (and that is understandable since the regions was not visibly marked before by default), but we are talking about the new users here. >>>> If the default will be that typing new text replaces the visible >>>> region then maybe there should be a substate where it is possible to >>>> type in new text while the region is visible? One way this could be >>>> done is to let C-x C-x go into that substate (in addition to doing >>>> what it does now). >>>> >>>> Would that be to inconvinient? >>> It sounds messy. We already have too many different region states. >> But the wish to make this work for both new and old users call for a >> new state, right? > > Wrong. I already proposed folding mouse-activated-deletion mode into > transient regions which would make for one less state, and provide a > somewhat less contentious part of delete-selection-mode. > > Is there a reason you are ignoring that particular proposal? Yes, I am not using the mouse if I can avoid it ;-) It was not my intention to ignore it of course. However rereading what you wrote I see that you said that there is no way for the average (new) user to deactivate the region. He/she can use the arrow keys without shift. Anyway I think Jason's suggestion to use C-SPC is much better than my suggestion.