From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: M Jared Finder Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Transient Mark Mode on by default Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:16:56 -0700 Message-ID: <47F01158.1040201@hpalace.com> References: <87myopnj0l.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080324200911.GA1310@muc.de> <001e01c88dee$34267e90$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <20080324210229.GB1310@muc.de> <85myogm1to.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1206923319 20051 80.91.229.12 (31 Mar 2008 00:28:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: paul r , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 31 02:29:10 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jg7td-0006UO-IG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:29:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jg7t1-0002wu-K7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:28:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jg5pz-000125-KQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:17:15 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jg5pv-00010o-RA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:17:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jg5pv-00010l-Ln for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:17:11 -0400 Original-Received: from tornado.hpalace.com ([64.79.196.243]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jg5pr-0005PA-KG; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:17:07 -0400 Original-Received: from adsl-76-247-47-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net ([76.247.47.30] helo=sally) by tornado.hpalace.com with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Jg5pk-0006pd-Tz; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:17:04 -0700 Original-Received: from localhost.lan ([127.0.0.1]) by sally with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jg5ph-0003NX-Io; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:16:57 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080109) In-Reply-To: <85myogm1to.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 76.247.47.30 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jared@hpalace.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:23:22 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on tornado.hpalace.com); Unknown failure X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:28:28 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:93993 Archived-At: David d wrote: > "paul r" writes: > > >> 2008/3/30, M Jared Finder : >> >> >>> If you want to keep users coming to Emacs to stay with Emacs, cua-mode >>> should be on by default. >>> >> Although I hope your POV is a bit extremist as of today, I think you >> stated clearly the general trend. As I previously said between lines, >> I'm experiencing similar behaviour of people giving up emacs after a >> few days because of unacceptable (to them) drop in their >> "productivity". >> > > cua-mode will not help them much. Emacs will remain different. > I can only speak for my own experience, and I consider myself a pretty experienced Emacs user. I understand keyboard macros, Elisp extensions (and have even created a few of my own), the difference between C-f, M-f, C-M-f, and such. I regularly navigate with M-., and enjoy displaying the same file in two buffers. I have a .emacs that is over 1000 lines. And I use cua-mode. You guys all say the experienced user never uses cua-mode, and that the newb would be confused because it makes Emacs inconsistent with itself. I completely disagree. If cua-mode did not exist, I *would not be using Emacs today*. Cut/copy/paste is such a fundamental concept to me, that learning new keys for them would have been (and STILL IS) intolerable. Cua-mode is a joy to use. 99% of the time, it does exactly what I want. As a solution to this whole problem, why not place an option on the splash screen that chooses if cua-mode is on or not? That way newer users will always see the option, right in their face, and it could default to being enabled if you see the splash screen. Once you dismiss that screen, it can save the setting in the users .emacs. And everyone here who hates cua-mode (and has already disabled the splash screen) will never know the difference. -- MJF