From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shift selection using interactive spec Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:39:23 +0100 Message-ID: <47E0449B.7000505@gmail.com> References: <87k5k69p92.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200803140408.m2E47hPU014494@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <87prtxpekk.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> <87abl11ilo.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874pb9koyw.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87od9gzqv9.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87bq5gytbi.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <8763vndi0r.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> <87hcf6ratt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <878x0if9ul.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87od9e9gnx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87skyo5bvk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87skynrin5.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87iqzju0lq.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1205880005 27276 80.91.229.12 (18 Mar 2008 22:40:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:40:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , Dan Nicolaescu , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Kim F. Storm" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 18 23:40:33 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JbkTu-0007qy-MF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:40:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JbkTI-0005BD-BV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:39:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JbkTD-0005A1-Sz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:39:47 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JbkTC-00059c-H5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:39:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JbkTC-00059Y-BX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:39:46 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JbkTB-0002ua-Uj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:39:46 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-148-228.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.148.228]:61029 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JbkT4-0008Tv-8n; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:39:39 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <87iqzju0lq.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080318-1, 2008-03-18), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.148.228 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JbkT4-0008Tv-8n. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JbkT4-0008Tv-8n a7e79797dc069e3a835787d43b32cd6a X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:92936 Archived-At: Kim F. Storm wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: > >>> To fix this bug, we would have to change the external package. >> Yup. We have to fix it anyway in order for the shift to start the selection. > > That's the beauty of CUA's command property approach - you can fix > it simply by setting a property on the problematic commands in > your own .emacs -- no need to mess inside the source code. > > And it is the same for the delete-selection feature -- you can > make external packages delete-selection aware simply by setting > a suitable property. > > I.e. if someone complaints that package xxx doesn't work, it is > much easier to tell them to "add these two lines to your .emacs" > rather than "you need to find file xxx.el and edit the interactive > spec of commands xxx-forward and xxx-backward, and then byte-compile > the file". > > But I've given up already - it seems that most people making decisions > on this issue don't use shift-select or delete-selection themselves, > and they are not interested in listening to those who use it and have > proven experience in implementing it (and having spent a lot of time > making it work very well). I have not given up yet, I am just waiting for others to realize that this is the way to go. I see some signs of that a change is coming close. Let us hope that what users will see of this will be very similar to what there is in other applications, + some enhancement that are natural here, like C-space etc. But please do not let these enhancement stop making the other part of the user interface as close to what people are used to as possible.