emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Steinar Bang]

I switched from emacs 21 to 22 yesterday, and emacs 22 seems to not have
the iso-accents-mode.

My fingers have been trained for over 10 years to use these keyboard
bindings.  Is there a way to get them into emacs 22?

Thanx!


- Steinar

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Apr 28 2008, Steinar Bang wrote:

> I switched from emacs 21 to 22 yesterday, 

| User-Agent: Gnus/5.110009 (No Gnus v0.9) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux)

Why didn't you upgrade to 22.2?

> and emacs 22 seems to not have the iso-accents-mode.
>
> My fingers have been trained for over 10 years to use these keyboard
> bindings.  Is there a way to get them into emacs 22?

The NEWS file suggests to use input methods instead:

,----[ NEWS | <f1> N ]
| *** iso-acc.el is now obsolete.  Use one of the latin input methods instead.
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Rebecca Breu]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:

> ,----[ NEWS | <f1> N ]
> | *** iso-acc.el is now obsolete.  Use one of the latin input methods instead.
> `----

Use toggle-input-method to enable/disable multilingual input.
For me, the default input method was just what I wanted when I searched
for a replacement for iso-accents-mode.


Cheers,
Rebecca

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc>:

> Why didn't you upgrade to 22.2?

Because 22.1 is the one Ubuntu Hardy comes with.

> The NEWS file suggests to use input methods instead:

> ,----[ NEWS | <f1> N ]
>> *** iso-acc.el is now obsolete.  Use one of the latin input methods instead.
> `----

Ok, thanx.  I'll have to figure out what a "latin input method" is, I
guess... one of these days, RSN...:-)

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[harven]

On May 1, 5:58 pm, Steinar Bang <s...@dod.no> wrote:
> >>>>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gm...@imap.cc>:
> > Why didn't you upgrade to 22.2?
>
> Because 22.1 is the one Ubuntu Hardy comes with.
>
> > The NEWS file suggests to use input methods instead:
> > ,----[ NEWS | <f1> N ]
> >> *** iso-acc.el is now obsolete.  Use one of the latin input methods instead.
> > `----
>
> Ok, thanx.  I'll have to figure out what a "latin input method" is, I
> guess... one of these days, RSN...:-)

Put in your .emacs
(setq default-input-method "latin-1-prefix")
if you want to enter accents with prefix notation  e.g. 'e  for
accented e. Type C-\ to activate/desactivate the input method when you
are in a buffer.

Or better, specify some language environment in your .emacs e.g.
(set-language-environment 'Swedish)
The input method will be set accordingly.
Type  M-x describe-language-environment RET SPC
to get a list of all language environments available on your system.
Norway doesn't seem to be available on my system though.

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Jason Rumney]

On May 1, 9:28 pm, harven <har...@free.fr> wrote:

> Put in your .emacs
> (setq default-input-method "latin-1-prefix")

>
> Or better, specify some language environment in your .emacs e.g.
> (set-language-environment 'Swedish)
> The input method will be set accordingly.

If you start Emacs in a Norwegian locale, it should automatically load
the "Latin-1" language environment (a generic environment for those
Western European languages that do not have their own language
environment). The default input method in that environment is latin-1
prefix, so all the OP should need to do is hit C-\ to switch it on.

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Jason Rumney <jasonrumney@gmail.com>:

> If you start Emacs in a Norwegian locale,

Hm... it's in a US locale, with Norwegian keyboard settings, Norwegian
time and a lot of other Norwegian settings.

(I really hate having menus in Norwegian, because it makes it hard to
search for problems, and describe problems)

> it should automatically load the "Latin-1" language environment (a
> generic environment for those Western European languages that do not
> have their own language environment). The default input method in that
> environment is latin-1 prefix, so all the OP should need to do is hit
> C-\ to switch it on.

Hm... the behaviour I'm actually looking for, is the one I had with
iso-accents-mode, which is the ability to type the accents I don't have,
for certain modes.

I put it into the text-mode-hook, which meant I got iso-accents mode on
in 
 - text mode
 - the SGML/XML/HTML modes I've used (psgml, nxml)
 - mail and news
 - version control checkin messages

But not in places like eg. c-mode.

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Jason Rumney]

On May 3, 8:39 pm, Steinar Bang <s...@dod.no> wrote:

> Hm... it's in a US locale, with Norwegian keyboard settings, Norwegian
> time and a lot of other Norwegian settings.

In that case (set-language-environment "Latin-1") in your .emacs will
set up a lot of useful defaults. Emacs doesn't have localised menus,
so that shouldn't cause you any problems.

> Hm... the behaviour I'm actually looking for, is the one I had with
> iso-accents-mode, which is the ability to type the accents I don't have,
> for certain modes.
>
> I put it into the text-mode-hook, which meant I got iso-accents mode on

Then the equivalent will probably be:

(add-hook 'text-mode-hook (lambda () (set-input-method 'latin-1-
prefix)))

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, May 03 2008, Jason Rumney wrote:

> On May 3, 8:39 pm, Steinar Bang <s...@dod.no> wrote:
>
>> Hm... it's in a US locale, with Norwegian keyboard settings, Norwegian
>> time and a lot of other Norwegian settings.
>
> In that case (set-language-environment "Latin-1") in your .emacs will
> set up a lot of useful defaults. 

In case Steinar uses en_US.UTF-8 this might not be what he wants.

> Emacs doesn't have localised menus, so that shouldn't cause you any
> problems.
>
>> Hm... the behaviour I'm actually looking for, is the one I had with
>> iso-accents-mode, which is the ability to type the accents I don't have,
>> for certain modes.
>>
>> I put it into the text-mode-hook, which meant I got iso-accents mode on
>
> Then the equivalent will probably be:
>
> (add-hook 'text-mode-hook (lambda () (set-input-method 'latin-1-
> prefix)))

FWIW, there's also norwegian-postfix input method, which might me less
intrusive than a full-blown latin method:

,----[ M-x describe-input-method RET norwegian-postfix RET ]
| Input method: norwegian-postfix (mode line indicator:NO<)
| 
| Norwegian (Norsk) input method (rule: AE->Æ   OE->Ø   AA->Å   E'->É)
| 
| Doubling the postfix separates the letter and postfix: e.g. aee -> ae
| 
| 
| KEY SEQUENCE
| -----------
| You can input characters by the following key sequences:
| key char  [type a key sequence to insert the corresponding character]
| --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ----
| AA  Å	 AE  Æ	  E'  É	   OE  Ø    aa	å    ae	 æ    e'  é    oe  ø
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc>:

> On Sat, May 03 2008, Jason Rumney wrote:
>> On May 3, 8:39 pm, Steinar Bang <s...@dod.no> wrote:

>>> Hm... it's in a US locale, with Norwegian keyboard settings, Norwegian
>>> time and a lot of other Norwegian settings.

>> In that case (set-language-environment "Latin-1") in your .emacs will
>> set up a lot of useful defaults. 

> In case Steinar uses en_US.UTF-8 this might not be what he wants.

Hm... /etc/default/locale has the following content
LANG="en_US.UTF-8"

So I guess that's what I have.

> FWIW, there's also norwegian-postfix input method, which might me less
> intrusive than a full-blown latin method:

Actually I have the norwegian characters on my keyboard.  What I miss
most, are the ones I didn't have on my keyboard that the latin mode
provided (the a and o umlaut, the degree sign etc.).

I had a look at the swedish-postfix method, but the character
combinations used would be too intrusive, I think.

The "o to get an umlaut, and the // to get a degree sign, are
"programmed" into my fingers, and I find myself typing them, and being
disappointed when the expected thing doesn't happen...:-)

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 21.05.2008 um 13:49 schrieb Steinar Bang:

> Hm... /etc/default/locale has the following content
> LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
>
> So I guess that's what I have.

Don't guess (that's OK in politics or quiz shows), check it:

	env | egrep '^L(ANG|C_)'

--
Greetings

   Pete

To drink without thirst and to make love all the time, madam, it is  
only these which distinguish us from the other beasts.
				– Beaumarchais

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE>:

> Don't guess (that's OK in politics or quiz shows), check it:

> 	env | egrep '^L(ANG|C_)'

Don't guess that all systems put their locale settings into the
environment.  That's OK in politics and quiz shows.

Don't assume that someone hasn't already grepped and found nothing, not
stopped at that, and then used locate and grep to find out where their
system _actually_ put the locale settings, and then used careful
wording, since someone didn't have time to verify this.

Assumptions are OK in... ach... never mind.

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 21.05.2008 um 19:19 schrieb Steinar Bang:

> Don't guess that all systems put their locale settings into the
> environment.


If they don't put them, they 're useless.

--
Greetings

   Pete

The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for «  
entrepreneur ».
				– George W. Bush

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE>:

> If they don't put them, they 're useless.

I was going to say that "if the locale utils don't pick them up, they
are useless", but it looks like you may be right.   The locale(1)
utility does not pick them up:

$ locale
LANG=
LC_CTYPE="POSIX"
LC_NUMERIC="POSIX"
LC_TIME="POSIX"
LC_COLLATE=POSIX
LC_MONETARY="POSIX"
LC_MESSAGES="POSIX"
LC_PAPER="POSIX"
LC_NAME="POSIX"
LC_ADDRESS="POSIX"
LC_TELEPHONE="POSIX"
LC_MEASUREMENT="POSIX"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="POSIX"
LC_ALL=

However, there is a setting called GDM_LANG:

$ env | grep LANG
GDM_LANG=en_US.UTF-8

Maybe the Ubuntu locale setting is Gnome specific?  If so, it shouldn't
affect GNU emacs...?

Or will it, since I'm using Emacs22-GTk, ie. the GTk-based Emacs...?

Thanx!


- Steinar

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 21.05.2008 um 20:01 schrieb Steinar Bang:

> Maybe the Ubuntu locale setting is Gnome specific?  If so, it  
> shouldn't
> affect GNU emacs...?
>
> Or will it, since I'm using Emacs22-GTk, ie. the GTk-based Emacs...?

Look into the code Ubuntu Emacs! As a Debian release your version of  
GNU Emacs needs to read a lot of ELisp files. Some of them might  
(getenv "GDM_LANG") and set some Emacs variable ...

"Emacs22-GTk" uses a graphical tool kit (set of libraries) that makes  
it look like a GNOME application in X11.

--
Greetings

   Pete

When in doubt, use brute force.
				– Ken Thompson

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, May 21 2008, Steinar Bang wrote:

> I was going to say that "if the locale utils don't pick them up, they
> are useless", but it looks like you may be right.   The locale(1)
> utility does not pick them up:
>
> $ locale
> LANG=
> LC_CTYPE="POSIX"
> LC_NUMERIC="POSIX"
> LC_TIME="POSIX"
> LC_COLLATE=POSIX
> LC_MONETARY="POSIX"
> LC_MESSAGES="POSIX"
> LC_PAPER="POSIX"
> LC_NAME="POSIX"
> LC_ADDRESS="POSIX"
> LC_TELEPHONE="POSIX"
> LC_MEASUREMENT="POSIX"
> LC_IDENTIFICATION="POSIX"
> LC_ALL=

Only the values without surrounding quotes are set (LC_COLLATE=POSIX).
The rest are derived values:

$ (unset LANG; LC_COLLATE=POSIX locale; echo ---; env|grep LC_ ) 
LANG=
LC_CTYPE="POSIX"
LC_NUMERIC="POSIX"
LC_TIME="POSIX"
LC_COLLATE=POSIX
LC_MONETARY="POSIX"
LC_MESSAGES="POSIX"
LC_PAPER="POSIX"
LC_NAME="POSIX"
LC_ADDRESS="POSIX"
LC_TELEPHONE="POSIX"
LC_MEASUREMENT="POSIX"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="POSIX"
LC_ALL=
---
$ 

> However, there is a setting called GDM_LANG:
>
> $ env | grep LANG
> GDM_LANG=en_US.UTF-8
>
> Maybe the Ubuntu locale setting is Gnome specific?  If so, it shouldn't
> affect GNU emacs...?

Emacs doesn't care about `GDM_LANG'.  See "Important settings" after
`M-x report-emacs-bug RET' to confirm.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-05-21 20:01 +0200, Steinar Bang wrote:

> I was going to say that "if the locale utils don't pick them up, they
> are useless", but it looks like you may be right.   The locale(1)
> utility does not pick them up:
>
> $ locale
> LANG=
> LC_CTYPE="POSIX"
> LC_NUMERIC="POSIX"
> LC_TIME="POSIX"
> LC_COLLATE=POSIX
> LC_MONETARY="POSIX"
> LC_MESSAGES="POSIX"
> LC_PAPER="POSIX"
> LC_NAME="POSIX"
> LC_ADDRESS="POSIX"
> LC_TELEPHONE="POSIX"
> LC_MEASUREMENT="POSIX"
> LC_IDENTIFICATION="POSIX"
> LC_ALL=
>
> However, there is a setting called GDM_LANG:
>
> $ env | grep LANG
> GDM_LANG=en_US.UTF-8
>
> Maybe the Ubuntu locale setting is Gnome specific?  If so, it shouldn't
> affect GNU emacs...?

It seems this is a long outstanding bug in Ubuntu's GDM, see
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/160984.

Try to copy your locale settings from /etc/default/locale to
/etc/environment to work around this.

Sven

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> harven <harven@free.fr>:

> Put in your .emacs
> (setq default-input-method "latin-1-prefix")
> if you want to enter accents with prefix notation  e.g. 'e  for
> accented e. Type C-\ to activate/desactivate the input method when you
> are in a buffer.

Doesn't look like the default-input-environment variable is buffer
local, so that I can set it for certain modes...?  (eg. set it in
text-mode-hook) 

> Or better, specify some language environment in your .emacs e.g.
> (set-language-environment 'Swedish)
> The input method will be set accordingly.
> Type  M-x describe-language-environment RET SPC
> to get a list of all language environments available on your system.
> Norway doesn't seem to be available on my system though.

Hm... perhaps the Swedish might do the trick (different letters for the
same sounds, but it's all within Latin-1)...?  But will there be side
effects? 

Re: emacs 22 missing iso-accents-mode

[Jason Rumney]

On Apr 28, 11:20 am, Steinar Bang <s...@dod.no> wrote:
> I switched from emacs 21 to 22 yesterday, and emacs 22 seems to not have
> the iso-accents-mode.
>
> My fingers have been trained for over 10 years to use these keyboard
> bindings.  Is there a way to get them into emacs 22?

The same functionality is provided by input methods (leim) since Emacs
20. I think the latin-1-prefix input method, or one of the language
specific prefix input methods (which have the benefit of filtering out
prefixes you aren't interested in) will give you what you want.

C-\ toggles input methods on and off. You may have to use C-u C-\ if
it automatically toggles one of the postfix methods in your locale the
first time it is used.