From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 21:22:26 +0900 Message-ID: <47A9A3ED-E4F2-4773-BA0A-C83FAC195D85@icloud.com> References: <838siattyv.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="25977"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philippe.vaucher@gmail.com, tomas@tuxteam.de, rms@gnu.org, Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 14:23:55 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUrBS-0006fg-QK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 14:23:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43002 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUrBR-000266-Tn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 08:23:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58830) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUrAF-00081Y-Mz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 08:22:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUrAE-0006jR-Ah for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 08:22:39 -0400 Original-Received: from pv50p00im-ztdg10021101.me.com ([17.58.6.44]:57133) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUrAD-0006fn-Qu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 08:22:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=1a1hai; t=1588422156; bh=gYTRXpsOiBKj2QDEPQHWjBwdvtge7dXbLC5qUQdjXNQ=; h=Content-Type:Subject:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=E9apsngg8WBLDBht6lGTYFg9iH19Eu7enG3eIZmMOLC/JKH99ut4CchuqEgrPPzsg NHa0yTsyWNB+B0wv0WynwwYsm6wAis41xuQXMdXw2KGZ/7d0a2Hhj8oVtrsLZofMWV XWyl3WIUH3gDHKBBmeOi8P+hldGUYK5BPBE1NWdD60V1eQOpu/4fDACZEhFxYwoIJc X6gG990nCpiUbqXd4+KgGJZ0j7YaBsW+p6uCyy2iu/fVAUJBge/iWgJQQoD9FHhhLe CHb/CS7jkCD4Bj7Ku1ZkJoaXp/n838wpJTZsZwsn3LWu2Jw2DDh0O0ogz8ZD7YZPbA DC48POwTRQ9Cw== Original-Received: from [192.168.0.101] (unknown [218.153.67.143]) by pv50p00im-ztdg10021101.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 05D8A1801D6; Sat, 2 May 2020 12:22:36 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <838siattyv.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17E262) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.676 definitions=2020-05-02_06:2020-05-01, 2020-05-02 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=729 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2005020113 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=17.58.6.44; envelope-from=pcr910303@icloud.com; helo=pv50p00im-ztdg10021101.me.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/02 08:11:40 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Received-From: 17.58.6.44 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248418 Archived-At: > 2020. 5. 2. =EC=98=A4=ED=9B=84 9:14, Eli Zaretskii =EC=9E=91= =EC=84=B1: > =EF=BB=BF >> From: =EC=A1=B0=EC=84=B1=EB=B9=88 >> Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 21:09:11 +0900 >> Cc: Philippe Vaucher , tomas@tuxteam.de, >> rms@gnu.org, Emacs-devel@gnu.org >>> For that, you should definitely read the manual, not just look at the >>> list of APIs. A list of the APIs will not tell enough, especially if >>> you are coming to a language that has a long history, with such >>> idiosyncratic names as cdr and assq. >> Isn=E2=80=99t this the problem that the proposal is trying to address? So= that people can get more info from the function names without needing to kn= ow all of the idiosyncrasies. >=20 > Yes. But as I wrote earlier, I think the hopes that names will solve > this problem are overrated. I think Philippe explained it well, but it=E2=80=99s useful for situations w= here you know the concept, used a bit, but haven=E2=80=99t used it enough to= internalize the function names. IMHO the function names have failed if one can=E2=80=99t guess simple functi= on names without looking at the documentation at all =E2=80=94 Everyone is s= aying that C-h will help, but personally the fact that one needs to open a *= Help* buffer while writing elisp means that it should be improvable.=