From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: martin rudalics Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "CHANGED outside Customize" in frames customization group Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:18:25 +0100 Message-ID: <4777E0F1.3080100@gmx.at> References: <477616F3.8000003@gmx.at> <4777A62F.9080009@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199038767 6102 80.91.229.12 (30 Dec 2007 18:19:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:19:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 30 19:19:41 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J92lA-0004yV-Fz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:19:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J92ko-0006Se-N4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:19:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J92kk-0006QS-Lx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:19:14 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J92ki-0006Q4-Pj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:19:14 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J92ki-0006Py-KE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:19:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J92ki-00082C-4N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:19:12 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 30 Dec 2007 18:19:11 -0000 Original-Received: from N759P000.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.38.192]) [62.47.38.192] by mail.gmx.net (mp001) with SMTP; 30 Dec 2007 19:19:11 +0100 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX188SMQZyhY8pPZF3TGWcD2V+EBdbNc7VJqECHnjJ9 E/Bkbgmpd/jWzE User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en In-Reply-To: X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85698 Archived-At: > IIUC `custom-reevaluate-setting' can be used to set a variable after > some environment value has been established as for `blink-cursor-mode'. > The situation seems completely different for `default-frame-alist'. > > In what way is it different? `frame-notice-user-settings' may set the value of `default-frame-alist' overriding a saved or standard value. The value of `blink-cursor-mode' is not reset by Emacs. > The first reason is immediately visible > when starting Emacs without your .emacs. The value is here: > > ((left-fringe) (right-fringe) (menu-bar-lines . 1) (tool-bar-lines . 1)) > > I know how to get rid of the -fringe entries. > > ISTR someone recently posted a patch that would affect the handling > of fringes in `default-frame-alist'. Would they get rid of those? I hope so. > But I don't know what to > do with the -line entries (which are BTW already there in Emacs 21). > > Why does anything need to be done with them? > Could you just leave them alone? > Or else change the numbers? > > Delete them in the customization buffer, save your settings, restart > Emacs, and here they are again. > > That is arguably a bug, and maybe we should fix it. > However, I do not see that this bug is so grave > that we should conclude that `default-frame-alist' is > unsuitable for use with Custom. The bug causes the "CHANGED outside Customize ..." state. > A second reason is the function `modify-all-frames-parameters'. This > function may set `default-frame-alist'. Customize `tool-bar-mode' or > `fringe-mode' and you will change your `default-frame-alist' settings. > > I don't see a problem in that. Why do you think it is a problem? > What aspect of it is the problem? Customizing `fringe-mode' calls `modify-all-frames-parameters' which sets `default-frame-alist'. I'm now told that `default-frame-alist' was CHANGED outside Customize although all I actually did was _customizing_ some option. > If the problem is in some detail of the behavior of Custom when it is > used on `default-frame-alist', maybe we can fix that detail. > For instance, maybe those other commands should do somethingto inform > Custom of the changes, so that it looks like `default-frame-alist' > was set using Custom. Suppose I set and save a new value for `fringe-mode'. Should Emacs automatically set and save the new value for `default-frame-alist'?