From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: `isearch-allow-scroll' - a misnomer and a bad design Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 08:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <46EB81E387234BDBBFD978850E6739DE@us.oracle.com> References: <20110911103940.GA3246@acm.acm><3C4B7E318EB04AE4B7DB9FD0E4C67629@us.oracle.com><20110911173012.GA3088@acm.acm> <20110912093651.GA3249@acm.acm> <20110913142732.GB3081@acm.acm><7E2EE144B11D413583E1E659CDE15186@us.oracle.com><8739g0vyuy.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <4E6FF63A.4070604@gmail.com><2F1337889F394491BA778ACA46799812@us.oracle.com> <874o07m3ay.fsf@maru.md5i.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1316617883 2388 80.91.229.12 (21 Sep 2011 15:11:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:11:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: md5i@md5i.com, dan.colascione@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dmoncayo@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, yandros@mit.edu To: , "'Stefan Monnier'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 21 17:11:18 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R6OS1-0007VL-27 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:11:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43055 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6OS0-0003lV-Cf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:11:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:50700) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6ORs-0003l9-SR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:11:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6ORj-00087o-Cx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:10:56 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:24169) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6ORj-00087d-5d; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:10:47 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p8LFAZ3o024897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:10:36 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8LFAXDK020896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:10:34 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8LFASpf029291; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:10:28 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 08:10:28 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acx4bgHeDFR3uCkHQ3WDQBy3P4UxxAAABIKw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E79FE75.0104:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 141.146.126.227 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144159 Archived-At: > > FWIW: Several people have expressed this idea, with > > which I agree. C-u should do nothing by itself (and > > that includes not exiting Isearch, of course). Its > > only effect should be to provide a prefix > > argument to the next command, to extend its behavior. > > I tend to agree. > > This reasoning is based on thinking of Isearch as a kind of a mode, > but that's exactly what we should avoid. What we "should avoid", if anything, is preventing a command bound in `isearch-mode-map' from receiving a prefix arg, i.e., making `C-u' always exit Isearch. Let's not get into how modal Isearch really is or should be - it's not necessary (or very useful) here. You would agree that it is possible for out-of-the-box Emacs, and for users, to bind commands to keys in `isearch-mode-map'. Whether Isearch is or should be truly modal is not as important as letting those commands act normally - including receiving a prefix arg. You can bind keys in the map to commands that exit Isearch, and you can bind keys to commands that do not choose to exit Isearch - no problem. But why should a command bound in the Isearch keymap not even receive its prefix arg and decide its own fate? You have your preference, and we can agree to disagree about this. You want `C-u' to exit Isearch and I do not want it to. I want to let the command it precedes ("prefix") decide, as always in Emacs. Some might agree with you; others might agree with me. More importantly, I think you have already agreed to giving _users_ the choice, via an option. Let's decide which behavior should be the default (have `C-u' exit Isearch or not), and let's add an option to let users override that default behavior. End of story.