From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs as word processor / Text Properties Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 15:48:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <464a688e-b7a5-4f6b-84b4-d7cd42107c8d@default> References: <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83vbzkcx20.fsf@gnu.org> <83d2lrczi7.fsf@gnu.org> <8338mmcsd9.fsf@gnu.org> <83txf1blf2.fsf@gnu.org> <87txf133yd.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <83r4a5bj5x.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwktdy6r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83iovhb0ez.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3fxdpmg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837gbwbcsx.fsf@gnu.org> <87d2lnevq7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ob57rlkb.fsf_-_@informatimago.com> <35e892b1-73b8-4ca2-9317-7eb83e7223e5@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385596146 9570 80.91.229.3 (27 Nov 2013 23:49:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:49:06 +0000 (UTC) To: "T.V. Raman" , "Pascal J. Bourguignon" , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 28 00:49:06 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vloqw-0004rO-Fy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 00:49:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38308 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vloqw-0001cy-46 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:49:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vloqk-0001cd-3j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:49:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VloqX-0001kC-87 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:48:54 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:41564) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VloqX-0001jy-1G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:48:41 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id rARNmdiH017937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:48:39 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rARNmcxL021089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:48:39 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rARNmcn3021084; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:48:38 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165819 Archived-At: > Internal data structures being XML is a small step -- but only a > very small step. Angle brackets do not in themselves semantics > make:-) Angle brackets are not an inherent part of XML, except its serialized form. Think XML data, not XML as marked-up text. No one represents XML internally using text. Not an angle bracket in sight. And internal data structure being XML or Lisp sexps (which I also suggested) would be a GIANT step. A definition of well formedness and being able to validate against schemas (e.g., XML schemas or DTDs) makes a huge difference. > For seeing what I mean, just take a look at the xml files in any > of the modern MS Office file formats. Not a reference, sorry - not representative. I've already commented on this. MS Office's use of XML is not up to par. But even it might improve with time... It has to interact with the rest of the world. At a minimum, it has to grok clean XML and sooner or later will need to be able to output clean XML for others (or they will filter to get that). > Most word-processors after a while lose the distinction between > layout style and content, and what results in the file format is > a messy bag of bits. Wrong. The tendency is in the other direction, at least if you include high-end tools that people use to create doc. Of course, if you just count the number of executables out there in the wild, then MS Word might beat all others combined (just a guess). Still, it is not the measure I use, and it certainly is not a goal that anyone starting today would aim for. In the context of Emacs, which would be to a large extent starting from scratch in this area, there is zero reason to emulate something like MS Word, in terms either of its internal data representations or its *.doc files. (That does not mean that Emacs could not import or export *.doc files. I mean only that it is far saner to build on something like XML.)