From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More visible mini-buffer prompt face Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 02:01:27 +0100 Message-ID: <45DF8E67.3050603@gmail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1172278917 32254 80.91.229.12 (24 Feb 2007 01:01:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 01:01:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 24 02:01:49 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HKlIL-00006z-88 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 02:01:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HKlIL-0002qh-3S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:01:49 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HKlI8-0002qS-Q3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:01:36 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HKlI7-0002qF-C9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:01:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HKlI7-0002qC-9A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:01:35 -0500 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1HKlI6-0002l3-JR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:01:34 -0500 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:59965 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HKlI3-0007FI-94; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 02:01:32 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.9) Gecko/20061207 Thunderbird/1.5.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000716-3, 2007-02-23), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1HKlI3-0007FI-94. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1HKlI3-0007FI-94 0a14a8d570794e9f6b4b556a839c17ba X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:66723 Archived-At: Drew Adams wrote: > Why? The user should expect most prompts, no? It depends on several things. Sometimes Emacs prompts you unexpectedly as you have noticed in the example you gave with the line endings. Sometimes it may be the structure of interaction. If you use some kind of "template" there may be different number of questions at different times. There may also be a mix of popup menus and minibuffer prompts. (That mix may be unavoidable to a certain part depending on what you want to do.) > Please be specific. In those cases also, the dialog should probably be > improved so the prompt is not unexpected. On such case is when quitting ediff. Other cases is when you have got an unexpected prompt and then happen to switch frame before you notice it. (I would like some notice also on the other frames here, but that seems to much to do right now.) > Or, if it must be unexpected, then > temporarily use a different face or `ding' or whatever, if it's thought that > users won't notice it. The notification should be specific since the UI is a bit unusual to new users. >>> A normal prompt should not especially stand out; >> Why not? > > Because the user expects it, looks for it. If I initiate query-replace, I > expect that the program will ask me what to replace with what? If I initiate > go-to-line, I expect that the program will ask me which line. I remember I was quite surprised in the beginning of how Emacs prompted. It took some time to really get used to it. > But I wouldn't want Emacs to ask any louder ;-). The face of the minibuffer prompt is customizable. So it is quite easy for you as an experienced user to get rid of it if you do not want it. The reverse is not true. It is much harder for a new user to make the prompt louder. > notice them, one way or the other. The point is that there is no reason to > make them more intrusive (LOUDER) all of the time, because they can make > themselves be noticed when they need to. My point is in the other direction. Be consistent in the UI. A prompt is always a prompt in that sense we are talking about it now. It needs the users attention. Then there might be other times when the answer is more "serious". It kind of goes against my argument here of course, but I still think a more visual default prompt has advantages. > Haven't tried lately, but I believe this is a new feature in Emacs 22. If it > doesn't work, please file a bug. I tried and failed. But maybe I misremembered something. > By default, `error' messages shouldn't stand out either, IMO. If a > particular error message really needs to grab the user's attention, there > are ways of doing that. Should not error messages be reserved for the case when the users attention is needed more than for just a warning or an informational message?