From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs-diffs Digest, Vol 50, Issue 7 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 00:02:39 +0100 Message-ID: <459AE48F.1090209@gmail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1167778984 11187 80.91.229.12 (2 Jan 2007 23:03:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 23:03:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 03 00:03:02 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1H1sen-00056q-6I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 00:02:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1sem-0002H4-HT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 18:02:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H1seY-0002GC-Bg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 18:02:42 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H1seX-0002Fe-Hw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 18:02:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H1seX-0002FZ-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 18:02:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [80.76.149.213] (helo=ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1H1seS-00008c-Tj; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 18:02:37 -0500 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:62553 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H1seQ-0003gZ-9S; Wed, 03 Jan 2007 00:02:35 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) Original-To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0666-1, 2006-12-31), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1H1seQ-0003gZ-9S. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1H1seQ-0003gZ-9S 53cdbc5809fcb8a4d86fdda0f6926740 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:64658 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > IMO this change in the manual of the text I wrote is ridiculous: > > >> --- msdog.texi 27 Dec 2006 12:49:00 -0000 1.64 >> +++ msdog.texi 2 Jan 2007 21:00:44 -0000 1.65 >> @@ -334,11 +334,14 @@ >> keyboard input in Emacs. >> >> @cindex MS-Windows keyboard shortcuts >> - Many key combinations (known as ``keyboard shortcuts'') that are in >> -widespread use in MS-Windows programs are taken by various Emacs >> -features. Examples include @kbd{C-C}, @kbd{C-X}, @kbd{C-Z}, >> -@kbd{C-A}, and @kbd{W-SPC}. You can get some of them back by turning >> -on CUA Mode (@pxref{CUA Bindings}). >> + Many key combinations (known as ``keyboard shortcuts'') that have >> +conventional uses in MS-Windows programs conflict with traditional >> +Emacs commands. This conflict arose because the designers of Windows >> +did not concern themselves with how Emacs used these characters. >> +Examples include @kbd{C-c}, @kbd{C-x}, @kbd{C-z}, @kbd{C-a}, and >> +@kbd{W-@key{SPC}}. You can redefine some of them with meanings more >> +like the MS-Windows meanings by enabling CUA Mode (@pxref{CUA >> +Bindings}). >> > > The original text was completely neutral, whereas the new one is so > grotesque that it's at best suitable for anti.texi, and at worst is an > insult to the reader's intelligence. > > To add insult to injury, the ChangeLog entry accuses me of being > lopsided towards Windows: > > * msdog.texi (Windows Keyboard): Explain that Windows was incompatible > with Emacs, not vice versa. > > Such incidents make me wonder why I still spend almost all my free > time working on Emacs, if what I get in return is this kind of > rudeness. > It is a joke of course, but one of those jokes that may be dividing, not uniting. A good example IMHO of why it is better to joke about oneself than about others. I could write in length about this, but just want to make a short note. The kind of thinking that is behind this joke tends to surface when a group is in a stressed position. (I believe it is rather similar to the stress that came up when I pointed to what I think are some problems on the w32 side.) There is a press now to fix the errors and get a release done. I think everyone agrees on that though we may disagree about details regarding what bugs to fix and so on. Could we please just accept that there is some stress now and that some bad things happens then? I would be glad if those changes to msdogs.texi were changed back to something more neutral. Let us avoid to write down our group thinking in the manual.