From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Davis Herring" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: bind commands that change buffer contents to `undefined' when read-only? Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <45998.128.165.123.18.1190647454.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> References: Reply-To: herring@lanl.gov NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190647484 16902 80.91.229.12 (24 Sep 2007 15:24:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:24:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 24 17:24:39 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IZpnW-0006mK-Lk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:24:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZpnT-0003z1-Nv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:24:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IZpnQ-0003ym-NM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:24:28 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IZpnM-0003ya-1D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:24:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZpnL-0003yX-Tu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:24:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mailwasher.lanl.gov ([204.121.3.2]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IZpnL-0002NL-GG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:24:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mailwasher.lanl.gov (8.13.8/8.13.6/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id l8OFOIuh008646; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:24:18 -0600 Original-Received: from webmail1.lanl.gov (webmail1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.106]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.13.8/8.13.8/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id l8OFOE6m026523; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:24:14 -0600 Original-Received: from webmail1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by webmail1.lanl.gov (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8OFOEZG017098; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:24:14 -0600 Original-Received: (from apache@localhost) by webmail1.lanl.gov (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) id l8OFOEhP017096; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:24:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail1.lanl.gov: apache set sender to herring@lanl.gov using -f Original-Received: from 128.165.123.18 (SquirrelMail authenticated user 196434) by webmail.lanl.gov with HTTP; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:24:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.8-6.el3.2lanl X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-CTN-5-MailScanner-Information: Please see http://network.lanl.gov/email/virus-scan.php X-CTN-5-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-CTN-5-MailScanner-From: herring@lanl.gov X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:79697 Archived-At: > 2. It doesn't really help users see that such keys are, in effect, > available for binding in such read-only contexts. That was a main > motivation behind my proposal. Exactly how much help does an semi-knowledgeable user (who knows enough to want to bind a key) need beyond the error? "Hmm... dired... I'd like a key to convert DOS to Unix line endings. How about M-u for "Make Unix"? That sounds good." M-u Buffer is read-only: # "Huh?" C-h c M-u M-u is bound to upcase-word "Oh, that's a nice command. But it doesn't work...?" M-u Buffer is read-only: # "Yup, it's taken, but it doesn't work here. A shame, too. I could have used it!" I don't see the reaction to C-h c proceeding like that, but rather "Aha. Good to know, but I can obviously use it here, since it doesn't work anyway." Davis PS - Never mind that there's no command to which to bind a key that does what this hypothetical user wants. They found the defun scrawled on a blackboard in a sewer or something. -- This product is sold by volume, not by mass. If it appears too dense or too sparse, it is because mass-energy conversion has occurred during shipping.